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Thread: 36 EL Motor/Tranny on EBay

  1. #31

    Re: 36 EL Motor/Tranny on EBay

    Yes Chris... Please tell us. Are all these variations correct? And except for the examples marked 'Bogus' do all the others show factory stamps?

  2. #32

    Re: 36 EL Motor/Tranny on EBay

    Quote Originally Posted by droptopford View Post
    Yes Chris... Please tell us. Are all these variations correct? And except for the examples marked 'Bogus' do all the others show factory stamps?
    All not marked BOGUS are good.
    Chris Haynes
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    http://vintageamericanmotorcycles.com/
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  3. #33

    Re: 36 EL Motor/Tranny on EBay

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan View Post
    Looking at the 36 VINs on Chris' site, I see two, possibly 3 different VIN bosses. 36EL1059 is straight with slightly rounded corners. 36EL1106 is more like my panhead with squared corners. 36EL12## has the bosses on either side of the top center case stud I assume to help hold the speedo cable clip. Are these variations all correct? And something I may encounter should I ever get to see a 36 in person?

    I stumbled onto a guy on a facebook knucklehead page with 36EL1006 It's a bobber now, said his grandpa bought it new. The boss for the VIN is straight & squared, like 36EL1106.
    I know 36EL1006. There isn't much 36 on it except the cases, which have been modified,, and the carburetor cover. Grandpa was a H-D wrench who upgraded most every part of the bike. Big Port top end, Panhead frame with Glide fork. Footshift trans, ETC, ETC, ETC.

    What you may not have noticed is that the Early '36 cases don't have the "Nubs" on the number boss for the speedometer cable clamp. But the those "Nubs" disappeared on the very late '36. Also they went from small timing plug to large then back to small. Lots of things change during production. Early 36 cases have casting numbers inside the case while later they are on the outside.
    Chris Haynes
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  4. #34
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    Re: 36 EL Motor/Tranny on EBay

    Regarding case numbers on the Vintage American Motorcycles site, page 2 includes 41FL3553 but it does not look good to me. NB: I am not saying something untoward happened but why do the 3s have a round top? Normally for 1941 Id expect 3s to be a certain flat-top style (with a serif). And along with the round-top 3s, the 4, 1 and 5s are also not consistent with factory stamping for a 1941 Knuckle.







    Page 6 has two photos of 65FLH27125. SNs for 65 Pans began at 1001 and they may have gone into the 15000s partly because of the 196069 even-odd code. But 27125? Why so high?

    Also on VAM are several other case numbers that appear to be non-factory but they are not described as such. As Ive said many times before, caution is advised when viewing case numbers on VAM.
    Eric

  5. #35

    Re: 36 EL Motor/Tranny on EBay

    Thanks for catching that. I can't see everything.
    Chris Haynes
    A.M.C.A. Member
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    I can't Re Member
    http://vintageamericanmotorcycles.com/
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  6. #36
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    Re: 36 EL Motor/Tranny on EBay

    Those two SNs (41FL3553 and 65FLH27125) were among six I commented on four years ago.

    Page 2 of case numbers has 39EL1414 but some characters are not consistent with types normally used at the factory for 1939. For example, the 3 is sans serif, the L is seriffed and the 1s have no serif at the base while their top serif is at about forty-five degrees instead of horizontal.





    However, the 3, L and 1s look similar to types used in H-D SNs at certain earlier times. I have a photo of the left BN and I cant see anything wrong with the BN characters so Im wondering if the case is a replacement with the SN applied by a Harley dealer who didnt use all the normal 1939 stamps.

    Page 4 includes 47EL13649 but isnt that too high? My photo collection contains no authentic-looking examples at 13000 or higher. The 4s appear to have an open back and no serif but normally for 47 Id expect an open top and a serif across the base. The 3 appears sans serif but normally Id expect a serif at top left.





    During the 47 model year at least four SN characters changed, including the E and 1, but that E and 1 are not the types Id expect for a very late 47 and I think 13649 is too high anyway. A clearer close-up may reveal more about the characters and the style of left case.

    Another post to follow.
    Eric

  7. #37
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    Re: 36 EL Motor/Tranny on EBay

    Page 5 includes 50FL11328 but youll notice the 5 has not much space between its horizontal stroke and the top of the curve. The serifs on the 1s do not look the usual length for a 50 Pan. I see no serif at the base of the 2 and I see no serif at the top of the 3.


    http://www.vintageamericanmotorcycle...ers/?g2_page=5


    Also on page 5 is 52FL2330. The style of left case is inconsistent with such a low 52 SN although that is not necessarily conclusive. However, again youll notice the 5 has not much gap between its horizontal stroke and the top of the curve. I see no serif at the base of the 2s and I see no serif at the top of the 3s.


    Page 6 includes what appears to be 2A98554H7 (?) but Id question it for a combination of two reasons: (1) it seems too high; (2) the characters are not consistent with factory types Ive seen for a 77 Shovel engine number regardless of early/mid-77 or later-77. (During the 77 model year there were several character changes.)


    http://www.vintageamericanmotorcycle...ers/?g2_page=6


    NB: Some, not all, 197080 Shovel engines with VINs that at first seem too high appear to have been done with factory stamps. And although some of the characters arent the types Id expect for the year and/or model concerned, there appear to be some patterns emerging regarding the types that were used.

    Anyway, at this stage I would question 2A98554H7 for a combination of the two reasons given. A call to the factory may even help regarding this VIN because 77s are probably still on record.

    And there are other VAM case numbers that could be addressed.
    Eric

  8. #38

    Re: 36 EL Motor/Tranny on EBay

    Eric/Chris,
    Appreciate both of your efforts to "educate" us on what is real and what is not when it comes to factory serial numbers! It would be great if you two would work together to "clean up" the VAM photo database. It's great resource. It would be even better to see some of the commentary above and elsewhere added to the photo gallery so we had a comprehensive source to go to for this info (no clue how you'd do this, but just a thought). Maybe talk to Mr. Palmer and do an "Appendix"? Great stuff here.
    Thanks.
    Chuck S.

  9. #39
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    Re: 36 EL Motor/Tranny on EBay

    Thank you, Chuck. I agree it would be good having some commentary added to the photo gallery. Even something like Too high for a 65 Pan would let people know there was at least one thing unusual about 65FLH27125. Also info could be added about its 2s, 7 and 1 because they are not consistent with factory stamping for a 65 Pan.

    Regarding 41FL3553, a comment about its round-top 3s would be a start and maybe the left case could be pointed out because it looks like the second long-rib version.

    Also a thread could be started here on CAI and then there would be plenty of room if people wanted to ask for even more info about VAM case numbers, non-factory or otherwise.

    In the meantime there is another photo on page 6 which is unclear. Its said to be 65FLH3997 but the first sequence character looks like 5? Is anyone able to provide a clearer picture because Id like a better view of all four sequence characters.
    Eric


    http://www.vintageamericanmotorcycle...ers/?g2_page=6

  10. #40
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    Re: 36 EL Motor/Tranny on EBay

    Eric, on the VAM site, once you open the photo to a larger view look above the photo for a box. It gives the option to view a larger version of the same photo. Or you can just click the photo again to enlarge it. The number in question does appear to me to be a 3.
    To have the right to do something is not the same as to be right in doing it.

    49 FL Love/Hate Relationship

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