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Thread: Discarded frame

  1. #31

    Re: Discarded frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
    Contrary to popular belief I have had a lot of frame experience. Working with the late frame Wizard Ron Grygus on many frames. He taught me a lot. He had made many frame fixtures for keeping and putting things back in line. One piece in particular was a 3" thick steel plate that bolted in place of the engine to keep the mounts true while the neck was removed. Many times i witnessed frames tweak themselves when the neck was removed or tubes cut.
    My frame jig that is for sale here has a plate like you describe only not as thick. It bolts in the place of the engine and is made of high tensile steel so the engine mounts stay in place. I have never cut any part of a frame, front or rear that it did not spring out of place. Seadub

  2. #32

    Re: Discarded frame

    Everyone that straightens frames does it a different way. I have seen motor alignment plates that were so beefy you wouldn’t want to pick them up for use. In the end it comes down to whatever the person fixing the frame thinks is good enough, and the liability their willing to take or as a consumer, the liability you are willing to take. I enjoy these threads. I like to learn how to do things and how not to do them.
    See you folks at Davenport.
    "Never wake up a Dummy, let him sleep. He might wake up and hurt himself." my good friend, John Fitzgerald (Southside Chicago)

  3. #33

    Re: Discarded frame

    Quote Originally Posted by HDpanman View Post
    Chris,

    I guess you really haven't figured it out yet. I would have hoped you would have taken the hint and saved yourself some of the "Trying to talk yourself into believing you have superior knowledge on all topics Harley Davidson." Some people don't need factory frame tables, factory CNC machines or factory anything and still manage to do as good a job or better than the factory did with what they mange to fabricate themselves. You have run into that person. Have fun believing in yourself. Pound your chest some more.
    I never mentioned Factory frame tables, CNC machines. I did question cutting frame tubes to remove the neck and not having a fixture in place of the engine. I am not pounding my chest. Simply trying to figure out why a person with so much experience cuts corners.
    Chris Haynes
    A.M.C.A. Member
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    http://vintageamericanmotorcycles.com/
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  4. Re: Discarded frame



    Some legitimate questions have been posed. The most straightforward way to remove a tube from a forging is to grind/drill out the plug weld then grind through the circumferential weld. Then the tube can be pulled or driven out. it is not a slip fit, the end of the tube is knurled and has been pressed in. However, there are four tubes connected to the steering head and none are parallel. The assembly won't come apart, the geometry won't allow it. Something needs to be cut. If the backbone is cut and the gusset removed, then perhaps the downtubes could be separated from the head if the lower tank mount is missing. If the mount is there, then no way. I decided to cut the backbone and the downtubes then weld when the head was installed.

    Can a quality butt weld be performed on steel tubing? Certainly, if done properly. Pipe welders do it all day long. In this case, I used heliarc with gas backup. The tubes were ground and sanded on the inside using a die grinder to remove all rust and scale. The tubes were then weld prepped by beveling. Then the tubes were purged with argon gas. This prevents oxidation on the inside. By this technique, the weld inside the tube is a mirror image of the weld on the outside. A pinhole on the outside means a pinhole on the inside. A lump of weld on the outside will also be on the inside. You can see the inside bead by looking at the outside bead. A weld joint performed this way will be as strong as the base metal. I've done enough x-ray welding to know what will work.

    Will a frame move when one member is cut? Yes. Some stress is still present even after 70 years of use. In this case, the misalignment caused by the bow in the lower rail was more than that caused by relieving the stress. Pressing out the bow brought the frame back into alignment.

    I'm not a professional nor am I in competition with them. I'm simply trying to remove the mystery. A frame is simply a mild steel welded assembly. You can do a lot with a small amount of equipment, a little skill, and a lot of patience. If the finished product is straight, strong, and looks right, what else is there?

  5. #35

    Re: Discarded frame

    Thank you. I enjoyed following along here.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    new zealand
    Posts
    331

    Re: Discarded frame

    so whos got the biggest table?
    George Hood wins

    great thread, thanks for showing your work

  7. #37

    Re: Discarded frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles.L.Pitts View Post
    Some legitimate questions have been posed. The most straightforward way to remove a tube from a forging is to grind/drill out the plug weld then grind through the circumferential weld. Then the tube can be pulled or driven out. it is not a slip fit, the end of the tube is knurled and has been pressed in. However, there are four tubes connected to the steering head and none are parallel. The assembly won't come apart, the geometry won't allow it. Something needs to be cut. If the backbone is cut and the gusset removed, then perhaps the downtubes could be separated from the head if the lower tank mount is missing. If the mount is there, then no way. I decided to cut the backbone and the downtubes then weld when the head was installed.
    Kind of like this?
    Last edited by Chris Haynes; 08-28-2019 at 11:46 PM.
    Chris Haynes
    A.M.C.A. Member
    Costco Member
    I can't Re Member
    http://vintageamericanmotorcycles.com/
    Be sure to register so you can view large photos

  8. #38

    Re: Discarded frame

    Quote Originally Posted by BNSONS View Post
    Everyone that straightens frames does it a different way. I have seen motor alignment plates that were so beefy you wouldn’t want to pick them up for use. In the end it comes down to whatever the person fixing the frame thinks is good enough, and the liability their willing to take or as a consumer, the liability you are willing to take. I enjoy these threads. I like to learn how to do things and how not to do them.
    See you folks at Davenport.

    The answer here is talking to me
    We, too, did things differently.
    This may not be the right solution, it is the solution that seemed to us the most opportune and that we managed to implement with limited means.
    On the other hand he created sleeves that we introduced into the tubes, he thought that the welds were not going to take the constraints, he then told me, to drill the tubes and the sleeves to weld together, to have good rigidity.
    The metal contracted at the time of welding but as it is not a motorcycle speed, it remains acceptable.
    We were at the end of the project of this framework and we are satisfied with the result.
    I often look with interest at the achievements, as here, I learn new things sometimes I show them to Hervé, the ideas that some have. It's rewarding.

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