Rivera Brute II Extreme 11 mm Belt Drive 68 FLH with stock closed primary

[e john s]

Well i bit the bullet this weekend and tried to install this "direct replacement" from Rivera. I went with Rivera because im already running their PC 1000 clutch so i thought they would be a good team. Instructions said take out the old, put in the new and check belt alignment. No mention of any modifications which 'may' be required.
1) had to grind out most of the front primary cover screw boss in the inner before the motor sprocket could even go on. 2) had to grind the first top and bottom screw bosses to clear the belt. 3) had to pull the rear transmission inner primary mounting studs because they hit the ring gear on the clutch basket and replace them with bolts and no washers so the heads would not protude too much. OK now everything spins. Put the outer cover on and kicked it - OK so far. Hit the electric start and CLUNK, again CLUNK, again CLUNK, again CLUNK, again CLUNK, again and it engaged. Pulled the outer cover and the clearance between the ring gear and starter gear is only about .050 ". This is not enough to allow the Bendix to getting moving and spin into the ring gear. The starter action is bottoming out at the inner primary when not actuated so there is no way to gain more clearance. Rivera's answer - shim the starter -- WILL NOT HELP. Maybe the clutch hub was over torqued and now goes on too far. ITS A PERFECTT SHAPE MAINSHAFT AND RIVERA'S LIKE NEW CLUTCH HUB AND THIS WAS NOT A PROBLEM WITH THE CHAIN DRIVE CLUTCH BASKET. Has anyone out there experienced this problem??? Has any one with a BDL Belt drive on a early electric start shovel head had this problem?? What's the fix?? (I'll switch to BDL if i have to and hope that the Rivera clutch hub works better with it (the BDL clutch basket) than with the Rivera!)

[Budster 95]

If you wanna sell the 68 with all the original chain drive components, minus the belt kit, let me know...........................

[e john s]

Bud - I think i know what your trying to say ---- however that doesn't help with my delema. If i did ever sell the bike, i have all the original stuff (ei., complete rebuilt front end w/ can't stop you from 70mph drum brake, big saddle seat, etc.) But, for every day ridding i like them 'my way'. Thanks anyway.

[e john s]

Well, guess i alienated everyone with my response to Budster -- or -- no one out there has run into this problem?? BTW a BDL system is on the way. Ill update this thread after i try it. In the mean time i'd still be interested in responses to the original questions.

[nmaineron]

Seems like your clutch hub may be thicker than the stock unit on the back end taking up all that room you need for starter clearance. Maybe you could take it to a machinist and have him take some meat off the backside or you might be able to just cut the ring gear. Seems like way to much adjustment to running this setup for me but it looks like something out of the ordinary has to be done to make her work. Good luck

[DouginGa]

I had a '67 a few years ago with the BDL belt drive & it worked fine, having said that I don't think it offers anything over the OEM chain setup & I'd rather have the primary chain setup. Just my opinion.

[e john s]

I would have been happy to stay with the chain, but, even after installing a double sealed main shaft bearing and new starter gasket plate with new o-ring -- primary lube continues to leak down the back of the inner primary from what seems like the starter gearing dog-house. I know it's the primary because i run ATF and the leak is red. Can't abide the drips on the driveway and garage floor. (No oil in primary - no oil leak.)

[e john s]

FYI anyone doing this belt drive instl. Final result. Started with the Rivera 1000 clutch which is supposed to work with both the original stk clutch basket (true) and/or their 1 1/2" 11mm electric start belt drive (Pan and Shovel). While it fits after making all the mods i mentioned earlier - the electric start doesn't work because there is not enough clearance between the starter and ring gears for relaible actuation. Sent back the Rivera belt and obtained a BDL 8mm setup for the same application. (To fit the Rivera hub into the BDL basket i had to heat the basket to 275'F and place the aluminum hub in the freezer.) It has the same starter clearance problem. This tells me that that a clutch hub designed to work with the stock clutch basket, while it fits in the belt drive clutch hubs does not fit the with the electric start. For my solution i took the clutch basket to my local machine shop and had them cut 1/8" off the starter side of the ring gear (leaving it 1/4" wide instead of 3/8"). They charged me $20 (good deal). Problem solved. After having looked at both drives i see no reason to spend $750 for the Rivera when the BDL is $350. Also, the BDL has belt guides on both sides of the motor pulley. I think this is important because you'll never be able to get trans/motor alignment perfect with a cast inner primary so the belt will always tend to walk. If it's to the outside where the flange is on all single flange drives your OK. But, if it's to the inside -- your screwed. Next we'll see how reliable this setup is!

[Budster 95]

The belt must run true. If the belt rides on either guide, it will run off, or fail prematurely. You can achieve this by shimming the compensating sprocket, or installing a thinner shim behind same. Depending on which way you gotta go.

[e john s]

Budster Thanks for the response. - Yes, as far as that goes i agree with what you say. We are actually talking about two differant aspects of belt tracking. What your refering to is easy to check - it is the distance out from the inner primary to the pulleys (belt drives dont have compensators) and yes if you need to move out at the motor you can put spacers behind. However normally you can get the alignment with no spacer (and you can't go any thinner than no spacer at all). As long as the clutch basket and motor pulley are in line (check with a straight edge) your all set. The aspect i was referring to is if you take an ariel view (looking down at) the shafts, they must be perfectly parallel. If not the belt will walk and with a stock cast inner there is really no practical way to adjust for a few thousands of an inch out of true. The slight walk that this will cause will not be a problem for the belt because it will only lightly rub against the smooth flange. Also, depending on how the belt is wound, it may have a natural tendancy to track straight or have a slight walk to one side under accel and then have a slight walk the other way under decel. On the late Pan/early Shovel the clearance to the bolts that hold the front of the primary to the engine case is extremely tight with a belt drive. If the belt walks just 1/16" off the inside edge of the front pulley it will be quickly frayed away by the bolt heads. On later shovels there is a smooth rounded cover over the stator and this will in fact act as an inner guide if the belt lightly walks against it, hence most manufacturers dont bother with the inner flange. Note that they all have outer flanges. Further note on the BDL - it does not require grinding an inch out of the front three outer to inner mounting screw channels and you can keep the rear transmission studs (unlike with the Rivera 11mm setup). $350 included shipping and they shipped the following day after the order was placed.