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Thread: Transmission cases for EL an dhow to recognize 1939

  1. #21

    Re: Transmission cases for EL an dhow to recognize 1939

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
    Your date codes are inside your cases, not on the outside. 3 3 is a Panhead case from the mid 1950's.
    The date code on my 1939 case is on the outside of drive shaft half and on the inside of the pinion gear half.




  2. #22
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    Re: Transmission cases for EL an dhow to recognize 1939

    Ric, can you please explain what you mean by mill spot. In your first post you talked about seeing another 39 with the case that had the mill spot and vent cap screwed into the case, and you said that was the same setup on your 39. When I read the words mill spot I thought you meant that the other 39—and therefore yours also—had a machined recess on top like the case below:



    But now you say your case has code 3 3. A case with 3 3 would usually have a boss and depending on year/application, sometimes the boss is drilled and threaded like the one below which is on a case cast in August 1950:



    Does the top of your case have a boss? Or is yours like my first photo? The case in my first photo was cast in March 1939 but another photo example I have from that same month and year was not machined for a vent screw. The earliest case I’ve seen which appears to have a boss is a June 1939 casting.

    You asked how to contact Steve Little. He’s a member of this forum or you can find him at raceframe.com.au

    Re Knucklehead serial numbers, for 1939 models numbers began at 1000 but for the EL this would not put the end serial number at 3695. The EL and ES were mixed in together as far as serial numbers are concerned. The Legend Begins states that its own production figures are NOT to be regarded as totally accurate (long story) but even IF we used its figures then the end number for 1939 Knuckleheads would be 3908 and that particular serial number could have been assigned to either an EL or an ES.
    Eric

  3. #23

    Re: Transmission cases for EL an dhow to recognize 1939

    Quote Originally Posted by erdos View Post
    The date code on my 1939 case is on the outside of drive shaft half and on the inside of the pinion gear half.



    Date coding started in the 1938 model year. Yours is obviously cast in '38. I have never seen one on the outside such as yours. Obviously they tried it there at one time. All the 1940-46 Knucks and the 1941 U I have in my shop are inside the case. The '36-early '38's have no date code.
    Chris Haynes
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  4. #24

    Re: Transmission cases for EL an dhow to recognize 1939

    Quote Originally Posted by Speeding Big Twin View Post
    Ric, can you please explain what you mean by mill spot. In your first post you talked about seeing another 39 with the case that had the mill spot and vent cap screwed into the case, and you said that was the same setup on your 39. When I read the words mill spot I thought you meant that the other 39—and therefore yours also—had a machined recess on top like the case below:



    But now you say your case has code 3 3. A case with 3 3 would usually have a boss and depending on year/application, sometimes the boss is drilled and threaded like the one below which is on a case cast in August 1950:



    Does the top of your case have a boss? Or is yours like my first photo? The case in my first photo was cast in March 1939 but another photo example I have from that same month and year was not machined for a vent screw. The earliest case I’ve seen which appears to have a boss is a June 1939 casting.

    You asked how to contact Steve Little. He’s a member of this forum or you can find him at raceframe.com.au

    Re Knucklehead serial numbers, for 1939 models numbers began at 1000 but for the EL this would not put the end serial number at 3695. The EL and ES were mixed in together as far as serial numbers are concerned. The Legend Begins states that its own production figures are NOT to be regarded as totally accurate (long story) but even IF we used its figures then the end number for 1939 Knuckleheads would be 3908 and that particular serial number could have been assigned to either an EL or an ES.
    Eric
    Eric,

    Thanks for posting the images because that helps further clarify the transmission cases. There is a boss that is similar to what is shown on the bottom images.

    The story of the eyes are open but can't see what I am supposed to be looking for. WIth the images that helps me get squared away on what is needed to be found to get the bike back to original status, and also helps understand what to expect for a budget for maybe doing so.

    Steve repsonded to a thread started over at the AMCA forum so we are discussing frame information there.

    Thanks for the info on the Knuckle serial numbers engine cases and how production relates to the final stamped number.

  5. #25

    Cool Re: Transmission cases for EL an dhow to recognize 1939

    Quote Originally Posted by erdos View Post
    The date code on my 1939 case is on the outside of drive shaft half and on the inside of the pinion gear half.




    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
    Date coding started in the 1938 model year. Yours is obviously cast in '38. I have never seen one on the outside such as yours. Obviously they tried it there at one time. All the 1940-46 Knucks and the 1941 U I have in my shop are inside the case. The '36-early '38's have no date code.
    On my 39 the cast tag is on the outside of the case and shows an L 8 code and in the identical location as shown with the top image. Had a question here about the Dec 38 casting but it looks like I found my answer here, and this link provides more info on transmission cases as well: http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bbo...e+casting+code

    Really amazing how using the search feature can do for you if you take the time!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by ricmoran; 03-22-2012 at 11:08 PM.

  6. #26
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    Western Australia
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    Re: Transmission cases for EL an dhow to recognize 1939

    Ric, thanks for your reply. For Knuckle left cases with casting number 112-35 the date code started as early as May 1938 (E 8) as shown below:



    I won’t be surprised if I see one from April 38 (D 8) but for now the other photo examples I have of Knuck left cases with that same casting number 112-35 show date codes I 8 and A 9 and they are on the outside of the case and in the same position as your L 8 and erdos’ J 8. Palmer mentions something about this on page 152, saying: 'The later 1939 crankcase has a date plate visible on the left crankcase just forward of the casting number.’ Palmer also comments on a casting date plate on the left case of the 1940 prototype EL on page 548 but it’s hard to see it in the photo.

    However, on page 150 for the 1936–39 model right-hand crankcase Palmer got the location wrong for casting number 112-352 when he stated: ‘The right case number is 112-352 and is located below the gear cover.’ Obviously that location is incorrect and I contacted Palmer about that in January 2010. I sent him a photo showing 112-352 inside a right-hand case that had factory-stamped 1936 belly numbers and he replied that he had made correction notes for the OHV right case. So I’m thinking casting number 112-352 was on the inside of the right-hand crankcase for all 1936–39 models.
    Eric

  7. #27
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    Location
    Western Australia
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    Re: Transmission cases for EL an dhow to recognize 1939

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
    Date coding started in the 1938 model year. I have never seen one on the outside such as yours. All the 1940-46 Knucks and the 1941 U I have in my shop are inside the case.
    Chris, regarding the 1941 U in your shop, do you mean it has a date code inside the left case? And if so can you please post a photo of it. You'll notice the BT Flathead left case below has its date code of K 0 (November 1940) on the outside of the case.
    Eric


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