Help Removing Tranny

[dmf1]

I'm looking for some assistance as I progress towards removing the tranny from my 58 Pan so I can replace a stripped mounting bolt. Here are pics of where I am now. Have the front primary chains off, and I've removed the clutch plates and basket as well as the clutch hub nut. So my question at this point is.....now what?

[Rubone]

Looks like you took the chain off the hard way, normally you pull both sprockets and chain as a unit, much easier. You need to pull the engine sprocket off and remove the three bolts behind it. You also should have a puller to remove the clutch hub so that the inner primary is completely free. The transmission will come out the LEFT side of the bike once it is free. Leave the mounting plate on it when you remove it, just roll the kicker down parallel to the ground and it will come out with the exhaust and oil lines in place. You will need to remove the pin on the shifter rod at the eratchet top and remove the clutch pull rod. someone has done a fine job on the compensator nut but you should still be able to get it off. A piece of 1/4 x 1 flat strap with a couple of 5/16 bolts through it will maka tool to get it off. It is all covered in the service manual which you should have in your hand!
Robbie

[panacea]

Do you have a clutch hub puller?

[Sarge]

The threads on the compensator sprocket are ordinary RH threads. Good suggestion Robbie made, to make a special "spanner" wrench to get it off (orig H-D part #94557-55).
You'll need a "sprocket lock:" something to hold the toothed part with, while loosening the engine compensator sprocket; turning the engine compensator to the left, separate from the toothed sprocket section. It is harder, now that you've pulled the chain and clutch, which could have been pulled against, bike in gear, rear brake set, to break it loose "with a few sharp hammer blows" as stated in the shop manual. A chain wrench, like a plumber uses, might come in handy, if not real kind to the engine sprocket teeth, but no serious threat, wrapped around the sprocket teeth. With a rag wrapped around its chain, even.
You have to take that engine sprocket off to get out the three bolts underneath of it. In a pinch, you can even leave the clutch sprocket on as you ease the whole shebang out the left side of the bike, but you have to, at minimum, get the engine sprocket off.
The only other special tool is the universal Harley clutch hub puller, which is a round plate that's shot through like swiss cheese with all the holes necessary to pull all the various clutch hubs off, and has a long, flex-headed screw in the middle. Best get that one. I have taken clutch hubs like yours off with three-armed universal steering wheel pullers before (auto parts store, ~$20), but the tool makes is so much easier. And, as a Harley owner, you'll want it because you'll use it over and over, as time goes on. Don't forget that the clutch hub nut is LH thread, by the way.
The deal with the bolts holding the trans down is to leave the 4 that screw thru the trans case and slide in slots in the trans plate in place. Just remove the 5th bolt, under the kicker. Remove the two in the rear of the plate that screw the plate into the frame (fine thread) and the two in front, either side of the base of the seatpost, that are bolts with nuts.
When you have the rear drive chain removed, shifter rod off the ratchet-top, and the clutch rod out of the clutch arm, like Robbie said, pull the kicker down to horizontal, and the whole trans will pull out of the left side of the bike. If you didn't take the clutch hub and inner primary off already, it will still all come off as a unit.
I don't think we forgot anything, but keep us updated, Dean!

[Bigincher]

I'll have to toss my two cents in, Dean. I'd put the primary chain back on (how the heck did you get if in the first place?) and then fabricate a 'jam bar' for locking the primary in place while removing the engine (compensator) sprocket. If you go over to the Magazine side of this website, look up my Blog, which is cleverly entitled "Biginchers Blog", or something like that. Scroll through them until you find the one about working on the clutch. I explained how to make a 'jam bar' in good detail. Oh Heck with it, here's a link: Just Another Day in the Chopper Shop….. | Harley Magazine - Classic American Iron Magazine

There's another real handy homemade tool you can make out of a wasted clutch disk and a chunk of bar stock. It can be slid over the clutch hub studs and used to hold the clutch hub securely while removing the hub nut. You will also find a photo of that in my blog, here: Classic Harley. Where's The Oil Leak…? | Harley Magazine - Classic American Iron Magazine

Hope that helps. The stuff I posted in my Blog is intended to show that the average guy can perform basic mechanical tasks on these old Harleys and achieve the same results as a (ahem) "Certified Harley Technician". It's really all just basic maintenance......

[dmf1]

Thanks for all the input. I slid the trans all the way forward and there was enough play in the chains that I was able to get them off by rotating everything and letting them come off the track (same way I put a chain on and off a bicycle). I took the plugs out so everything turned easier. By putting the bike in gear and lowering the lift so the back tire was on the ground, I was able to unscrew the clutch hub nut without everything spinning, and I did read the manual and see that the hub nut has opposite threads - so at least I didn't sit there trying to turn it the wrong way!. Of all the wrenching jobs I've done while flowing the manual closely, this one seems to be the most difficult, primarily because there are no pics with clear references to each part. It makes it tough for me when the manual says unscrew the compensator sprocket and I don't have any idea what a compensator sprocket is and there's nothing to show me what or how to do that!!

Anyway, this is all really helpful (as I knew it would be). If Im understanding correctly, the compensator sprocket (in front) unscrews by putting something in the 4 holes to turn while using something to hold the teeth in place so it releases. Correct? I can then unscrew the 3 bolts behind the sprocket which I can see and the front end will be apart. I am ordering the clutch hub puller along with the new enlarged mounting bolt that Im re-threading into the bottom of the trans (which is why Im going through all this). Still not sure I can visualize how exactly whats left of the clutch in the back comes apart. When I pulled the hub nut off a long rod slid out with it (whats that?). I'll figure it out after I get the compensator sprocket taken apart and my parts arrive. Then of course there's always the question of how the heck I get it all back together!! Its a charge to learn to do this stuff for the first time. Other than engine internals, there isn't much I haven't done on my old pans other than this which feels great. Im sure the second time is always much easier.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by dmf1

...If Im understanding correctly, the compensator sprocket (in front) unscrews by putting something in the 4 holes to turn while using something to hold the teeth in place so it releases. Correct?

Correct. But you only need to engage two of the holes. Robbie described the tool you can make, a foot or 15 inches long, with two holes near one end the same distance as either two across the compensating sprocket. If you can thread two 5/16" ordinary bolts through them (sticking out a quarter or 5/16ths; check the depth of the holes in the compenator sprocket), it would be closer to the surface, for your leverage, than nuts on them holding the bar up, away from the sprocket, as you try to turn it.

Originally Posted by dmf1

I can then unscrew the 3 bolts behind the sprocket which I can see and the front end will be apart. I am ordering the clutch hub puller along with the new enlarged mounting bolt that Im re-threading into the bottom of the trans (which is why Im going through all this). Still not sure I can visualize how exactly whats left of the clutch in the back comes apart.

Just replace the three spl. nuts on the three clutch hub studs and snug up the screw in the middle. Whack it straight, and sharply, with a steel hammer. Tighten it again, if necessary, and whack it again, and it will pop off. There's a keyway on the taper.

Basically, nuttin back there. There's an oil deflector (a rim, like a little saucer, that fit inside thru the hole in the inner primary) held by the 1 7/8" dia., shallow, sprocket nut (RH thread). 'Has a tin-eared lock washer under it. That's something else usually removed by a special tool (PN 12023-X). It's very thin. Usually, even a deep-well socket isn't deep enough to go all the way down over the mainshaft sticking out of your tranny. If you leave the rear chain on, r. brake locked on, it will give you the stop you need until you break the sprocket nut loose.
There are two nuts/bolts w/springs on them that hold the back ears of your inner primary, one on the oil tank, one on the frame. Now you're in the filthy part of your bike, around the chain, that no one can clean, or wants to.

Originally Posted by dmf1

When I pulled the hub nut off a long rod slid out with it (whats that?).

That's the clutch push rod, and it gazinta the clutch throw out bearing under your kicker cover on the other side of the trans. The big, cone-shaped throw out bearing should be held in place, by the clutch lever fingers (attached to that thing flopping back-and-forth on top of your transmission) and the kicker gear it surrounds, right where it is, even after you pull the pushrod out to whack the clutch hub loose. It's pretty well trapped in place. There's a simple little oil seal that you might as well renew while you're at it, inside the end of the clutch nut.

Originally Posted by dmf1

I'll figure it out after I get the compensator sprocket taken apart and my parts arrive. Then of course there's always the question of how the heck I get it all back together!!

Remember the enshrined quotation from all the old Harley Service Manuals, "Reassembly is the reverse of disassembly!" HAH! if it was only so simple.

Originally Posted by dmf1

Its a charge to learn to do this stuff for the first time. Other than engine internals, there isn't much I haven't done on my old pans other than this which feels great. Im sure the second time is always much easier.

Congrats! Panhead, and older, wrenching's fast becoming one of those mystic arts, like cooping wooden barrels or wooden-wheel building. There are still thousands of Old Harley (and even Indian) afficiandos, but we have to pass this stuff along to someone! Good luck, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice here on the forum to take you through the job.

[Bigincher]

Originally Posted by dmf1

Still not sure I can visualize how exactly whats left of the clutch in the back comes apart.

Dean, I offered a link to my blog, where I went through the clutch completey, explained everything, and included pictures. I did it with someone like you in mind, to show the steps, and show that it can be done by the average guy who's never done it before. It's there for the reading, if you should so choose. If not, well? I guess you'll figure it out...!

[dmf1]

Originally Posted by Bigincher

Dean, I offered a link to my blog, where I went through the clutch completey, explained everything, and included pictures. I did it with someone like you in mind, to show the steps, and show that it can be done by the average guy who's never done it before. It's there for the reading, if you should so choose. If not, well? I guess you'll figure it out...!

Big, haven't you heard that I'm actually an ABOVE average guy??

[Bigincher]

Originally Posted by dmf1

Big, haven't you heard that I'm actually an ABOVE average guy??

Well you got me beat, then--- I don't consider myself any more than an average guy.