Nice Indian on Ebay

[dualcarb]

Here's a nice vertical Indian single on ebay:



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...235240249&rd=1

[nuklhd]

what will something like that sell for. it's very cool looking.

[dualcarb]

Not sure as it is a smaller bike (250cc) and single cylinder engine.

My guess is a lot less than $5,000. But how much less I don't know.

Anyone here know anything about these little machines?

[Kojack]

Actually 220ccs. This one has both fenders bobbed and a non original tail light. Non original exhaust. It also has a plunger rear suspension which was only used on the twins so at least the back half of the frame is wrong. These bikes had front half frame numbers which would have matched the engine so that would be something to check. The vertical series machines were rushed into production after WWII without proper testing and research so quality suffered. Typically they broke spokes (an odd cross two pattern was to blame) and the Edison magnetos were not up to the task although I hear they worked better on the singles than the twins. This one looks like a nice rider even though it's not very original. Price nowdays is anyones' guess. I never thought I'd see a Harley 45" sell for over $4k so I refuse to be surprised anymore.

[Chris Haynes]

This is an Indian Arrow. Originally named the Aero as it was hurredly designed as an air drop bike during WWII. After it failed all the air drop testing Indian made a civilian bike out of it and put it on the market. This and its sister, the Vertical Twin, were the bikes that put the nails in the lid of Indian's coffin.

[Bigincher]

I'd like to see photos of some of the bikes that failed the drop test. In the 70's we did the Honda-drops, I wonder if they looked about the same.

[Baytown]

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes

This is an Indian Arrow. Originally named the Aero as it was hurriedly designed as an air drop bike during WWII. After it failed all the air drop testing Indian made a civilian bike out of it and put it on the market. This and its sister, the Vertical Twin, were the bikes that put the nails in the lid of Indian's coffin.

Hi Chris.
The 149 and 249 Scouts are beautiful little bikes, and one day, I'll own one.
This is the first time I've heard this info re the 1949 - 1952 Torque series of Indian Arrow, Warrior and Scout. I'm not sure this is correct, and would love to see a reference re this. They were first sold in 1948, though billed as 49 models.
The bikes were taken on by Indian's new President, Ralph Rodgers (1945 - 1949) and were of US design (C Briggs Weaver, Indians ex Chief Engineer who was working for the Torque Company in Connecticut) Indian bourght the company and re-employed Briggs Weaver to perfect the new line. They were of US build. In 1951 The Indian Sales Corporation (essentially the sales are of the terminally ill Indian Company, and owned by the British) IMPORTED the 250cc Indian Brave from the UK.
Indian did indeed consider Air Dropped bikes DURING the war, ultralight bikes for use by paratroopers, and the 149 and 249 Indians were not these bikes, though Briggs Weaver (BW) was the engineer involved in this project. This project was discontinued by the US War Dept before any bikes were delivered. BW left to work with Torque at this time.
Indian did also sell Motor scooters from the Lowther Manufacturing Company in 1949, if anything, these would have been more suitable to the para requirement, far more than the torque series of bikes.
Best wishes everyone.

Ken

References: Iron Redskin: H. Sucher
Indian Buyers Guide: J Hatfield
Indian Scout: J Hatfield
Indian Photographic History: J Hatfield

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by Bigincher

I'd like to see photos of some of the bikes that failed the drop test. In the 70's we did the Honda-drops, I wonder if they looked about the same.

The main thing was the hubs self destructed when the bike hit the ground. The spokes broke free and the forks, frame hit the ground. So the Aero became the Arrow and got sold to the unknowing public.

[Kojack]

I've heard the aero story before but never been able to find any facts to support it. The first vertical prototype wasn't built until after the war so the time frame seems wrong. There was a folding scooter, the Welbike, that was built by British Excelsior for use by their paratroopers. They weren't very successful, mainly because the British paratroopers were limited in the amount of equipment they could take along. After the war the leftovers were imported to the US and sold by a department store. Brockhouse Engineering, the British firm that took control of Indian, developed the Welbike into the Corgi scooter and sold them through Indian dealers as the Papoose. I have no doubt that some people at Indian wished they could take the verticals and push them out of an airplane so maybe that's how the story came to be.

[Baytown]

I agree with you Kojack.
I submitted an extensive reply re this thread, and referenced Harry Sucher and Jerry Hatfield. Some how, it disapeared and wasn't displayed. I doubt very much that the 149 and 249 series bikes were for air drop. Not to mention they were released 4 years after the war.
Best wishes all.

Ken.