PDA

View Full Version : 1929 Indian 101 Scout - Cannonball 2012!!



Pages : [1] 2 3

GreasySideUp
08-07-2012, 04:18 PM
http://i50.tinypic.com/2rmmxas.jpg

All,

I've found myself temporarily unemployed so foolishly I spent all my money on an Indian. I bought an Indian T shirt 21 years ago with the dream of one day riding one across the country. 4 years ago I bought a 47 Chief Basket but unfortunately with work, deployments, house renovations and a baby there never was time to finish it.

Now that I have some time on my hands, the plan is to take this thing across the US. I've got exactly a month to get this thing ready for the Cannonball. I am a backyard mechanic but a novice on old Indians so I'll take all the advice I can get.

She runs quite well. I am not going to tackle an engine rebuild but everything else is fair game. She was rebuilt early 90's, starts on 3-4 kicks and doesn't smoke when warm. The top end is 40's? sport scout, it has a rebuilt 6v generator and magneto. If you can identify the heads and jugs that will help when ordering gaskets and parts.

I'm going to post a bunch of pics of things that need to be addressed and parts I know I need, if you have suggestions on what I should absolutely tackle please help me out. If you have any used parts, let me know that as well. I'm also interested in what looks original and what is not. I know the fender is 30's, the light, top end, shifter, kick start pedal, spot light and carb are not original. This will never be a points bike, rather something to have a great time riding.

The carb is a Schebler DLX 36 from a 28 Chief. It seems to be working ok so I'm not sure if a rebuild is in order or not. I'll post a video on youtube of it idling, it seems to idle a little high. The bowl has rotated where you can look inside at the float. Is there supposed to be a gasket here or does it just loosely cover? I ned a nut for the bottom of the bowl.

http://i47.tinypic.com/s3eqyw.jpg

All of the lines need to be replaced, they are all leaking. Is a double flange the way to go or what is the best way to get a good seal on these copper tubes?

http://i47.tinypic.com/35k0g1w.jpg

The gas tank was leaking, the white goo on the inside is coming apart so I am going to re-coat the tank this weekend. Lance Caswell from Caswell plating http://www.caswellplating..com/ is helping with a sponsorship of some tank sealer the trip. I'm stoked to be using the Caswell epoxy tank sealer, I've read some great reviews and it seems to be much more durable than some of the alternatives out there. I'll post some pics and video of the finished project. On the picture above, any idea what that black stuff is, how to get it off and what is under it? I'll probably need that flange that attaches to the tank.

When riding, I find a neutral spot between 2nd and third gear - is this normal? It is as if I can go a little past 2nd when I shift from first and have to ease it back.

I'll need a magneto cover, this one is made of a butter lid.
http://i46.tinypic.com/oksdp4.jpg

The third leaf spring looks like it is cracked through. Is this difficult/necessary to replace - how much does it affect the handling?

Does anyone make a 6V LED headlight conversion?

Other things I'll need

All seals, o rings and gaskets. I'm going to take a spare set of head gaskets.
tank petcock/flange
magneto cover
oil plunger rebuild kit
carb rebuild kit
bottom nut for carb
oil pump gasket and drain gasket
breather gasket
tires
spare 6 volt wire
a few grease fittings
wheel bearing grease seals


Thats all for now, I'll try and get some video up soon. I'm stoked about this project, it will be amazing if I can pull this off! If anyone knows of any good mechanics near Norfolk Va that would be of great help as well if I get stuck on something. If there are any antique riders in these parts let me know as well so I can do some shakedown miles with you.

The adventure begins!

Mr. Big
08-07-2012, 04:27 PM
Welcome to the forum and good luck with your project. Lots of Indian guys here who can offer assistance.

Buzz_Kanter
08-07-2012, 05:12 PM
Looks like you are a man who enjoys a good challenge. Riding the Motorcycle Cannonball on a totally overhauled and fully broken in bike is tough, you are facing more than tough.

One easy and cheap suggestion is to replace all of the cooper fuel lines but the very ends (that thread in) with rubber ones. They are less likely to break or crack and leak. Also consider an in-line fuel filter.

Good luck and hope to see you in Newburgh next month.

brianbbs67
08-07-2012, 10:03 PM
Buzz is right, replace with hose, no worries, available anywhere. That black stuff looks like a spray on pipe sealer. If its not leaking I'd leave it alone with only 30 days to go. I'm from tidewater, but live in the mountains now. Don't know of any good old bike mechanics there, but I will ask my family. You will get a lot of good info here and good luck. That's a grueling race for both man and machine. Sounds like something I'd do!

hairynob24
08-07-2012, 10:53 PM
G,day you may try the 101 Club,there is George Yarocki in Torrinton Connecticutt if he cannot help or fine parts or people there is some think wrong ,look on the web 101 Association ,a mate is doing back up on the run with George ,his name is Pommie Tim ,and has been trained by George ,good luck it will be alot of fun,cheers Rob

charger49
08-07-2012, 11:09 PM
looks like the bike that was on craigs list

good luck with the ball

gww
08-08-2012, 01:16 AM
sure may be wrong, but thought the cut off for entry was last dec.?

Buzz_Kanter
08-08-2012, 05:57 AM
I hope you are already pre registered for the Cannonball. If not good luck now as the field closed at 75 riders a while ago. But you never know as some riders might have dropped out.

GreasySideUp
08-08-2012, 08:00 AM
Yep, it is the Craigslist killer. "Enjoying a good challenge" is code for just plain dumb. It will be amazing if I can pull this off. There have been a few that have fallen out from the Cannonball, Lonnie is giving me a few days to see if I can get this bike sorted enough to make the ride. If I don't make the ride, I still have a Scout - life could be worse. Randy Walker has a bunch of the parts above, I'm debating how much I want to tear apart the front end and replace with new bushings. The play feels pretty good, there is just a little and the steering feels good. I'll probably take a look at the bearings just to be safe. I know I have a broken 3rd leaf spring. Who has parts for Schebler Carbs? Specifically I have a DLX 36 from a 28 chief that needs new gaskets at a minimum. I also want to pick up some spare floats.

I bought 2 of the copper lines so far, how long do they last? I do like the look of copper. The tank is leaking which is my biggest concern. I'm not sure if it is the outlet or a pinhole next to the outlet. That black stuff is hiding a lot. I'm going to try and ride again this morning up to speed before I start tearing it apart to see if there is anything else that needs addressed. Hopefully the rain will stop soon.

Road Oiler
08-08-2012, 10:22 AM
Never start or ride a magneto bike with an open source of fuel! (or any bike for that matter.) It WILL ignite and burn down, quit possibly with you on it. Minimally your carb should have the lid closed and be fitted with the proper gaskets. That black glob is the fuel tank petcock that has been sealed in with some kind of tar glue. It will let go after it has vibrated enough, when you least expect it. It would be a shame to see a nice old bike destroyed, not to mention your ass burned up.

Its amazing to me how these old beasts soldier on, and with a little care they can be made safe and fun to ride.

Good luck with your project!

GreasySideUp
08-08-2012, 11:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmIG8YGn7OM

Short video of start and idle. Let me know if it sounds like anything is array. Road Oiler, the tank is coming off after lunch. No more riding until it is sealed up. I sure hope this doesn't turn into a 5 year project after I start opening things up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmIG8YGn7OM

GreasySideUp
08-08-2012, 02:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP-68sVv1zk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP-68sVv1zk

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KP-68sVv1zk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Help.

I pulled the tank and pulled off four layers of fixes. I want to get it right this time but would prefer not to split the tanks. I'd like to save the paint as well as the patina is awesome on this bike. Radiator shop maybe? What are my options, if you have any pictures or websites you can point me to for a fix like this, that would be great.

Thanks!

t-bone
08-08-2012, 03:40 PM
i think the biggest problem the riders had last year was magneto problems. the cyl and heads look like the ones for my 42 sport scout. theres a guy from alabama riding a old scout he is over on the adv riders site. doug i think is his name. the guy has been around the world a few times on old iron check him out. he would be the guy to talk to.

GreasySideUp
08-08-2012, 04:22 PM
I found the best welder in Hampton Roads. Possibly the world. Mr Evans has been welding tanks for 75 years. He said it should be no problem. I've got to clean it first though.

Guys like this don't exist any more. He loaded me up with tomatoes and cucumbers from his garden before I left. We are going to start the welding tomorrow morning, I'll post some pics in the afternoon.

I think Buzz has to approve my messages. I'm on forum posting probation.

GreasySideUp
08-08-2012, 04:24 PM
I'm not sure what happened to the previous message. Here is the source of the tank leak.
http://youtu.be/KP-68sVv1zk

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KP-68sVv1zk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

GreasySideUp
08-08-2012, 04:29 PM
http://i50.tinypic.com/20t1gu0.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/erwuio.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/14n03l4.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/mjrcsl.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/s5xz0o.jpg

Can anyone tell me what that petcock is from? I think I might replace that as well. Additionally, when putting this all back together what do you recommend for teflon tape? Stupid question, does plumbing tape get eaten by gas? I found out today gas will eat through the bottom of a plastic cup in less time than you can transfer said gas from the cup to a spare gas can.

Mr. Big
08-08-2012, 05:13 PM
Can't help with your petcock but I sure admire you're gumption. Don't ferget to put new shoes on her and have a spare or two!

CHEIFRIDER
08-08-2012, 06:54 PM
teflon tape sucks for gas applications...........so does black goo. methinks a major tank repair is in order b-4 you go. the petcock is from a '41 Allis Chalmers Ford Deer Ford Deer International Harvestor Crocker Brough (everyone knows that:))

brianbbs67
08-08-2012, 07:58 PM
I use Teflon tape on my petcock tank threads, never had a leak, but you never use it on compression thread side(the ferrel nut threads.). It might not leak right away but it will or worse crack at a bad time. I don't use Teflon on oil or grease fitting though. Good luck feet posting pics!

GreasySideUp
08-09-2012, 08:18 PM
I got the tank welded up today. Mr Evans has been welding for 87 years! There is nothing he hasn't seen. He even loaded me up with fresh vegetables from the garden.

http://i49.tinypic.com/35m0507.jpg

They just don't make them like Mr. Evans any more.

http://i46.tinypic.com/fbxmyr.jpg

We submerged the tank in a bucket of water to try and save as much of the paint as we could
http://i50.tinypic.com/3d2tl.jpg

He had an amazing rig set up on his workbench. An electric winch on a hoist, that went to a hook, which went to a bungee, that hooked around a pair of needle nose vice grips, that gripped a drywall screw that had a nut attached to the inside of the tank to keep the bung from falling in and positioned properly during the weld. I thought it was fascinating. We had to open the tank up to get a good weld on the fuel valve. He used a nail at one point to keep a piece from falling in. The nail is still attached to the tank. We have it pretty well sealed up but it looks like hell.

http://i50.tinypic.com/neulap.jpg

It definitely adds character to Craig. (That is what I named him after purchasing on Craigslist) The debate now is to leave it as is for the ball, or church it up just a little with some sanding and touch up. I'm going to use the Caswell sealer tomorrow just to make sure there is absolutely no leakage at all and keep it from rusting.

I'm working on some time lapse video with my GoPro but I haven't quite got it figured out yet.

Charlie1012000
08-09-2012, 10:50 PM
First of all you should have good use of the Repair and Overhaul manual from the 101 assoc. club and George Yarocki. The neutral spot between gears is normal, it takes a bit of training to shift. Have you lifted the lid on the gearbox to examine the internals? The box can be refurbished without taking the motor out of the frame, but it is easier to work on with the motor out and if you don't want to split the motor you can leave it attached.
It is always a risk of breaking something with demounting and mounting. If the gears are ok, they can take a lot of wear but can start to jump gears. Very annoying but there is some red neck remedys for that.

The weak parts in the gearbox is the low down countershaft bushing at the right hand side (chain side) and ball bearings. If excessive gear lash is found, you can check by threading a bailing wire down and around the gear cluster checking up-down play, allow just some play. There is bushings in the c-shaft gear that can reveal some play, but the danger is when the c-shaft house bushing is worn and the invisible c-shaft is loose allowing a lot of gear back lash, prying apart the gearbox at speed.

The clutch side ballbearing can be checked by prying the clutch CAGE in-out up-down. In the clutch cage there is a bushing for the main shaft and the clutch HUB should not have a lot of up-down play in the cage.

There is a very weak (In my opinion) ball bearing for the mainshaft at the chain side and if that is worn it can be felt by shifting the mainshaft out-in, tug at the clutch hub and kick start gear.

Mainshaft sideplay with new parts is 0.05-0.10" and with 1/16" play it is time to investigate more in depth. There is 2 hardened washers that limits the sideshift that can be worn as well as the chain side bearing. My advice is if anything, change bearings. SKF 6207 2RS and 98207 MB (manuf. RHB) or similar and a modern lip sealing adapter could be bought or made in stead of the inadequate felt sealing.

Charlie1012000
08-10-2012, 12:26 AM
The controls and control wires can wear and fail. They work surprisingly smooth, light and easy if all is good. Heavy operation puts a lot of strain on your wrists. There is very little play in the sheath spirals so a ever so minute kink or bend makes them heavy. They are a lot more sensitive to kinks than bowden wire systems.

You can pin point a kink if you withdraw the wire and feel along it with your fingers. End to end steering at the headstock is a sensitive place. A sideshift in the spiral is sometimes possible to fix but not certain, and it takes a lot of presicion and persistence.

The ends are where the wires break and a problem at a road breakdown as there is little provision to shorten for a temporary fix.
At the handlebar the wire is bent 90 deg. (or screw in some versions) to fasten to the slider and a place where the wire can break, apart from plain wear at the spiral entrances. Position and adjustment is important, at strain any side shift of the wires should be avoided.

The handlebar spiral and sliding block is wearing also and a source of sloppy and heavy operation and not comfortable in the long run.

Charlie1012000
08-10-2012, 07:37 AM
"The carb is a Schebler DLX 36 from a 28 Chief. It seems to be working ok so I'm not sure if a rebuild is in order or not." The most important test is the bubble test.
http://virtualindian.org/11techleaktest.html
I recommend to use a renown float. The one Cotten makes is light and good and extensively tested for the digestive fuels you have in US and others use Rubber Ducky brand with good results. If you got a bowl with a detachable float valve, Linkert type, is always a good idea to have tip-top so a new one is not out of place. The throttle axle shouldn't have too much play or the idle can be a little rough or uneven. There is small throttle axle bushings that can be replaced. The venturi must fit snugly in the bore or you can get all sorts of dial-in problems. There is some red-neck remedies for that also apart from making a new one. The spring under the spray tube needs to be firm enough or else the tube (and venturi) is rattling about and wears at the spigot neck. Some carbs has a small gasket ring there and I guess it is mostly to prevent wear. The hardest part to restore is if the carb butterfly has worn a groove in the body, some does matter less, but with a deep groove the body needs to be reamed out and a new butterfly and venturi made in order to have a smooth functioning carb. Otherwise there is not many buttons on a toilet is it?

Charlie1012000
08-10-2012, 08:33 AM
You're going to travel at sustained high speeds for long distances and a working hand pump is a good security before you know oil consumption and in long hills. Do a test so you know how much oil is added with one stroke and how many is needed to fill a dry crankcase. Fairly slow pull and firm push. Use rubber hoses for the cannonball. Paint them copper if neccessary.

If the hand pump is tight, leak free (and it should be) ride with the oil petcock open at all times and at any hesitation or rattle in the engine, quickly add some oil during your stopping procedure (the engine needs to turn some revulotions to lubricate surfaces). Cool down and check oil level.

GreasySideUp
08-10-2012, 09:29 AM
Pure gold Charlie!!

On a side note, has anyone seen a 101 with whitewalls? An image search turned up nothing, I wonder if that is sacrilege or not?

Charlie1012000
08-10-2012, 09:33 AM
http://belinfante-indian-motorcycles.blogspot.se/

GreasySideUp
08-10-2012, 10:04 AM
That is one cool motorcycle!! I was actually on that page when you posted. My absolute dream bike is an original paint Indian 4. Some day....

I've got to get back out to the garage and finish this tank. I'll be back this afternoon.

Will a 440x18 fit this bike or do I need to stick with the 400? I have a Goodyear on the front that I like the look of with the aggressive tread but I don't think they make those any more. It has awesome tread but is showing its age.

GreasySideUp
08-10-2012, 11:33 AM
double post

GreasySideUp
08-10-2012, 11:34 AM
http://i49.tinypic.com/2nhf19i.jpg

Here's what a White Wall would look like.

I've got the first coat of Caswell in the tank. It was painless. I'm going to wait a few hours and go ahead and use the rest of it. The directions say you have up to 24 hours to apply a second coat. It is a nice thick resin, it should work great when it hardens.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2quogzq.jpg

I also made a quick video of the throttle play. Right now there is about 1/8th turn of slop in both the advance and the throttle. It seems excessive. Is this normal? If not what is the fix? I've ordered a spare cable as well, I'll probably ride this one until it breaks. The movement is pretty free without any binding.
http://youtu.be/yh8D-_m8KO0

tomfiii
08-10-2012, 11:53 AM
It looks as if the sleeve is moving in and out as you turn it,if that is the case you may need to put washers between sleeve and handlebar stop for slack.

Charlie1012000
08-10-2012, 12:11 PM
If you look closely you see that the spiral visible at the handle end, is loose and adds to the play. The spiral is fastened with (i think) 3 pins at the end, I think visible under the grease but I can only see 1 on the video. Fasten that and the play should be normal. Drill for new pins at another location, use larger pins in existing holes or tack weld. If you unscrew the sleeve nuts and take off the handle, wear is also visible at the slider pin flats. Worn spirals often have irregular play with the most in the middle.

GreasySideUp
08-10-2012, 01:07 PM
I pulled the throttle apart. It looks like the spiral on the inside of the throttle is gapped too far. Can I tighten that up? If so, what is a good way to do that?

You can see the play in these two pictures. There is no cable movement at all.

http://i47.tinypic.com/rk4x0o.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/149uiw3.jpg

Video here.
http://youtu.be/rHMRMVX4888

Charlie1012000
08-10-2012, 01:19 PM
It looks like normal play. Measure the spiral groove if it's somewhat equal and withdraw the slider and check wear marks. Some play is normal and won't harm, what's irritating is the play if the control is heavy to operate, if smooth and light you won't notice much.
Of course also examine the wire thoroughly for wear or kinks.

Charlie1012000
08-10-2012, 01:44 PM
You could call Walker machine to get the measure of the width of a new slider pin flat that slides in the handlebar slot, to see if yours is worn. That's the only play I could think of would need tightening a little. It is also doable to weld up and file the pin flats to make the play tighter, but I don't think I would bother. With a new pin you run the risk of having a binding slider in the worn slots.

Charlie1012000
08-10-2012, 02:00 PM
The sliding pin is pressed in the block and locks the wire with a 90 deg. bend. If you going to change the wire be certain to have a radius at the 90 deg. bend. If neccessary file or drill just a very small amount in the block hole (by hand) to break the hole edge and allow a small wire radius that will lessen the strain at the bend.

GreasySideUp
08-10-2012, 02:17 PM
If that play is normal, I'll go ahead and leave it as is. It is working pretty well, that play is just a lot different than any of the newer bikes I've owned.

Charlie1012000
08-10-2012, 02:22 PM
You'll get spoiled with the seat comfort and Indian cruise control...

Buzz_Kanter
08-10-2012, 03:28 PM
Good for you on this project. Looks like you are making real headway. Congrats.

Not meaning to add any more pressure, but the Motorcycle Cannonball departs four weeks from this morning. Tick toc baby. Hope to see you and the 101 there.

GreasySideUp
08-10-2012, 09:15 PM
I'm just about finished with the tank. I ended up finding what I think is the exact match from pep boys. It says perfect match on the can anyways.

http://i45.tinypic.com/kdkc48.jpg

It looks like it might have been painted with a late 80's GM red. That or GM painted their cars with a late 20's Indian Red! It is still pretty rough, it would have required a full day of sanding to get the bottom of the tank smooth, but that is the look I have time for. I wanted to match the age of the restoration. Obviously the new paint is nice but I think with a little Oil on the bottom of the tank it will look like it wasn't touched.

On another note, when I went for a ride the other day the rear center stand fell off the spring and drug for a ways. At closer inspection, one of the bolts completely fell out of the fender. I don't think there is any locktite on this bike. I'm going to have to go through every bolt and put some on or I won't have anything left to ride by the time I hit California.

brianbbs67
08-10-2012, 09:32 PM
Man you are going for it! I gotta love that! You should take "Craig" down to Dumars Saturday nite, and have the original waffle cone. If its still open?

Charlie1012000
08-11-2012, 02:32 AM
The breather and breather valve could be a source of trouble. A worn engine at high speed produces a lot of blow by gasses thet elevates the crankcase pressure, and in some cases the original flutter valve hasn't got the capacity enough to deal with that. A certain pumping pressure is somewhat neccessary in order to transport oil mist to all bearings and surfaces in the engine, so it's not that good to discard it and have an open air breather as in a car engine. There is some aftermarket valves available on the market with better capacity (KIWI, Duff, Starklite that I can think of) that would be a better choice. A tell tale of elevated pressure is oil leaks all over the engine and in cases, the gearbox. Sometimes the cork sealing at the crankshaft gear to the transmission can't keep tight and pressure transports to the transmission case and gearbox, oil leak visible at the gearstick tower vent hole.

Charlie1012000
08-11-2012, 03:13 AM
One thing with the 101 is to never ride without the original tool box mounted! I had a bloody close call one day riding my newly refurbished 101 and thought of nothing coming down an intersection where some of my pals was waiting on traffic when I went by like a scalded cat hollering and ho-hoing.

My new brake band at the rear that I previously could lock up at almost any speed! (rare on a 101) went suddenly out of comission, and on investigation I found it oil soaked. Behind the knurled nut at the clutch lever on the transm.case there is a felt washer and I had put in a nice and new one. Perhaps it was not the right density felt or the knurled nut wasn't tight enough (it surley was) or crankcase pressure had migrated to the case, but the result was oil drips with the wind at running speed flew straight in the gap of the brake bands and drum with known result.

I replaced the felt with a tight O-ring but never the less, a leak can emerge at will and a toolbox deflects the oil fling effectively. I Will never ride without the toolbox mounted again.

Charlie1012000
08-11-2012, 04:03 AM
At rear the chain is passing the tire pretty darn close with a 4.00, I don't know if a 440 will work. I think you will pass Cocker at the C-ball, might get discount there?


That is one cool motorcycle!! I was actually on that page when you posted. My absolute dream bike is an original paint Indian 4. Some day....

I've got to get back out to the garage and finish this tank. I'll be back this afternoon.

Will a 440x18 fit this bike or do I need to stick with the 400? I have a Goodyear on the front that I like the look of with the aggressive tread but I don't think they make those any more. It has awesome tread but is showing its age.

Charlie1012000
08-11-2012, 04:37 AM
Wheels, do you have Timken tapered bearings or ball bearings. The tell-tale of Timken hubs is if there is reinforcing humps at the inside of the spoke ridges, on one or both sides at the rear and a hump at the front hub as well.

With ball bearings at the rear, the bearing play needs to be adjusted every time you loosen the rear axle nut(s) because the bearings are constructed without a locknut, and with tightened axle nuts a play at the top of the wheel rim shouldn't ever be less than 0,7mm or 0.03" and that's almost too tight in my opinion. A home made flat bar wrench for that tight spot adj.nut on the chain side is good to have in the toolbox.

GreasySideUp
08-11-2012, 03:13 PM
Time lapse of the progress on the tank. A thirteen thousand pictures to make this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDYRHTY5S1Q

I'm hoping to figure out this GoPro camera for the trip.

hairynob24
08-11-2012, 04:44 PM
GreasySideUp this is great to see a detailed step by step of your progress ,love the video ,i would be worried that the old man can move as quick as you ,maybe quicker,shows those harleys up ,cheers Rob

Buzz_Kanter
08-11-2012, 06:15 PM
Very cool deal thanks for sharing it here.

GreasySideUp
08-11-2012, 09:41 PM
The breather and breather valve could be a source of trouble. A worn engine at high speed produces a lot of blow by gasses thet elevates the crankcase pressure, and in some cases the original flutter valve hasn't got the capacity enough to deal with that. A certain pumping pressure is somewhat neccessary in order to transport oil mist to all bearings and surfaces in the engine, so it's not that good to discard it and have an open air breather as in a car engine. There is some aftermarket valves available on the market with better capacity (KIWI, Duff, Starklite that I can think of) that would be a better choice. A tell tale of elevated pressure is oil leaks all over the engine and in cases, the gearbox. Sometimes the cork sealing at the crankshaft gear to the transmission can't keep tight and pressure transports to the transmission case and gearbox, oil leak visible at the gearstick tower vent hole.

I captured some blow by of one of the case gaskets here. I have ordered another gasket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx7a6vG2eEQ
I'll add a breather gasket to the list as well.

Charlie1012000
08-11-2012, 11:04 PM
That's a major leak! but not that difficult to repair. If not the gasket is shot completely or the lid screws loose, can you feel any air pulses at the breather tube outlet? Strange leak, The lid is so soft it should close up to the case when tightening screws. It has to be a shot gasket or is the screws bottoming out in them holes?
I's not uncommon that the lid gasket leaks, but so untight that bubbles is visible?

GreasySideUp
08-12-2012, 05:56 AM
I'll shoot some pics when I take it apart. I didn't check the breather outlet at the time. Do you use blue locktite on these engine screws? How about oil lines, oil pump etc?

Buzz, I only have 3 weeks left. My wife owns my weekends or she won't let me go!

Charlie1012000
08-12-2012, 07:02 AM
I can truly say there is not one single nut or thread on my bike except head bolts that isn't treated with Locktite. Tougher red (pin bolts) medium blue (all else) or penetrating green 290 (assembled joint nuts in crankshaft or gearbox) The pipe threads I seal with White (561) and is carrying that and the Blue (248) available in very practical non running sticks in the toolbox. I haven't lost a nut or had any problems with break loose at demount. Many times the threads are too dirty to give full adhersion but I don't care, it's just an extra security and fiddling with the goo makes me have to concentrate on fasten every screw or nut. Cylinder base nuts I (mostly) use a lighter gas torch to heat for easier break at demount to avoid pinbolts to follow with the nut.

At the transm. case damn double nutty bolts I use red on the outside nuts and blue on inside, because I want the pinbolts out on disassembly. It would be easier to use ordinary bolts, but I got an "original" bike.

GreasySideUp
08-12-2012, 06:25 PM
I'm looking to add a brake light switch to the Scout. Looking on Ebay these are pretty common.

http://i47.tinypic.com/14nky1d.jpg

Is there anything better out there?

I think this standard wiring diagram will work
http://i46.tinypic.com/2h3d6ck.jpg

I'm thinking of mounting on the back frame hooked to the drum pull. I should only need to run an additional wire to the switch and upgrade the light to a dual filament correct? Is there a kit anywhere for this or a better way to do it? Has anyone seen 6v LED taillights on these bikes? This guy uses them on Studebakers.

http://www.highspeedmotors.com/Webled.html

It seems like the lower draw and brighter light would be great. If there is a better product out there please point me to it.

Thanks!

Charlie1012000
08-12-2012, 11:03 PM
I suspect that bulb is too tall for the original Indian rear light cup, the glass cup is so small/short but if it fits it is super! You might be able to use it without the glass cup or lens altogether. Thanks for the link! I haven't found a good source for 6V leds with ordinary sockets. All kind of leds is available but with bulb sockets all seems to be for 12V! I think that's strange as most leds run on 5V. It takes some fiddling to alter the rear light for dual filament, it's all pressed together. An aux light or 2 won't put you at shame.
I suspect the bulbs on the site is single filament, but it might be possible to connect a resistor for dimmed light as rear light that is by-passed for full brightness when you brake.


I'll shoot some pics when I take it apart.
One thing before taking off the cam lid would be to check and note the ignition timing, it can take a lot of grief before you find out if the mag has to be set 1 cog off the mark. It happend to me and the reason was my magneto guy (Hm.. that's me) put an mag. internal part 180 deg. wrong and you don't know what's done before in your engine.

The lid is pinned with 3 location pins (2 for -31 yr mod.) to the case and is a souce of binding, apart from the shafts. There are 2 small putroding lips on the lid circumference that can be used to pry and tap on to avoid chafing the sealing surfaces, but still it could be a bear to get off. Try to pull it off parallel. Plastic car interior pry bars is good alternative tools to the regular carpenter hammer nail tounge.

When taking off the cam lid, in order to try to keep the cams and intermediate gears in place and position (at least first time before you know the markings) it is neccessary to demount the oil pump and push back on the shaft. Original there is markings on the gears and it would be good to know if they are aligned right or not, all sorts of misfits could be stuffed in there and markings could be off, or intermediate gears could be flipped over, so you want to know if that's the case. Your engine is working fine so it just a matter of putting it back the way it is. If you can't see all markings make your own with a dab of paint.

GreasySideUp
08-13-2012, 01:05 PM
I had to take the weekend off to hang out with the family. It was good to get back in the garage.

I got the front wheel off, it looks like the front brake is shot.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2041le.jpg

The forks are worn at the through bolt. There are no bushings there although it looks like there is plenty of room for one. Have you seen guys put bushings here?
http://i50.tinypic.com/2hqh3bs.jpg

I'm going to go ahead and put new bushings everywhere. They seemed pretty tight when it was together but The Girl Named Craig has seen some miles. Individually everything is pretty loosie goosie.

I have no idea how to get this joint apart. Advice please.
http://i50.tinypic.com/mr4k5l.jpg

There is also a picture in the manual advertising taking the rear wheel off without removing the brake but I just cannot see how that is possible. I'll take some hints there as well.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2lb13c5.jpg

GreasySideUp
08-13-2012, 02:35 PM
I'm also looking to upgrade to an o-ring chain. Any recommendations, vendors and size?

Charlie1012000
08-13-2012, 02:40 PM
It's not a harley! This trailing link front end can can have a lot of slop before you even notice. The spring stay bolt(s) is pressed in the uprights with a knurled head. If not a big play that would make the uprights rattle loudly I would consider leaving that until later as they have no affect to the road holding quality and the knurling could loose some grip.

It's a bit worse if the pivot axle(s) has worn the fork hole, a sign that the pivot axle wasn't tighted enough and tilted axles could result in binding action and tilted wheel. Bolt up the empty pivot axles in the fork and see if they are parallel and level to each other, if not you have a crooked fork. If a little uneven worn and not perfectly parallel it might be possible to adjust by end mill the inner fork surfaces a little with an hand drill and long shanked end mill.

If straight and the fork holes are very worn a quicker remedy than demount the fork and weld is perhaps a custom fit bushing or make an oversize link axle that fills the hole. Or just fill with JB and see to that it is torqued enough. All that is more important with new bushings as it's a greater chance of spring action binding. Replace the bellcrank bushings If axles are straight and level but an unacceptable up-down play. Too much sideplay could be adjusted with thin washers.

Charlie1012000
08-13-2012, 02:59 PM
-31 when they started to have the brake drum at right, in the rear sprocket, the hub was in 2 parts and the wheel could be demounted separate. Not an improvement..

I haven't an opinion on O-ring brands, but be certain the front sprocket at least is hardened, preferebly with a small threaded hole for fastening a folding washer or some other provision to secure the sprocket nut. A pinbolt could be welded on or whatever. Locktite won't do it. Very important as a ever so slight play on the splines will undo the nut undoubtly, and if not hardened the splines will crumble and loosen the nut anyhow. The rear sprockets have a larger diameter at the splines and forces isn't as great as on the front, but still better to have hardened or a tough steel.

GreasySideUp
08-13-2012, 04:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve_3NWmV9-k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Here is the front fork play

Charlie1012000
08-13-2012, 04:07 PM
I'd check for straightness first, then take a desicion betweeen JB and making a new OD axle or/and last resource weld.

Aluminium fling reinforced JB would glue the axles solid, it is the rattle that made the hole wear.

GreasySideUp
08-14-2012, 07:13 AM
http://i46.tinypic.com/n6ghs.jpg

The rear brake pad has been replaced but the drum is worn from the previous pad rivets showing through. I've got new pads on the way and will turn this drum just a hair to try and smooth it out a bit.

I have never used a rivet gun before. This seems like a great excuse to get a new tool, any advice on one to get?

Is the kicker on the bike stock? there are two below on the ground, are these stock? If not, I'm going to replace it with something different and use the parts on the floor to make it. It will be a surprise.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2lnfx39.jpg

Here is a pic of the crack in the 3rd leaf spring. I have a used one on the way.

http://i48.tinypic.com/21m9jxk.jpg

GreasySideUp
08-14-2012, 07:22 AM
http://i48.tinypic.com/2l95tmo.jpg

The Girl Named Craig looks sad with no wheels.
http://i47.tinypic.com/f77z5.jpg

It is difficult to tell in this picture but the left bell crank side stud was shortened at the cotter pin hole to allow spoke clearance. The wheel needs some offset in the spokes, rather than truing the wheel with this offset they cut the stud to accommodate. It is a scary thought not having a cotter pin as back up. I found a guy to true the wheels tomorrow so we will try and put the proper offset back in and put a new side stud in. 55 bucks for that stud - ouch!

Charlie1012000
08-14-2012, 08:31 AM
The brake bands are soft and you push a rivet thru and split the band easily with other than hammer and hand punch. A flat round support punch on the rivet head and carefully split and peen over the rivet with suitable punches is the way to go. The rivets must fit snugly in both the metal band and the brake band holes, it's mostly the shear force the rivet should resist. Most band rivets are with a partial hole, so the clamping force is not and shouldn't be as great as a solid rivet.

Your kicker has an added tube on it. Original there is just a rubber pushed on, but you can ask Jeff Alperin how bloody slippery that can be with oily shoes. That was the initiating cause he took a tumble the other week. A pedal type is better in that regard. The pedals you have is about the same age as your top ends, so they'll pass....

Someone assembled the wheel axle wrong, let's see how it's done, the thick bearing stopnut should be at the left.

Charlie1012000
08-14-2012, 08:49 AM
A redneck remedy would be drill and thread for a stop screw or weld on a thinner pin with a hole for a washer and cotter pin to secure the nut from falling off.

tomfiii
08-14-2012, 11:52 AM
I've used a riveting tool from an aircraft supply ,but the punches need some minor clearancing.

GreasySideUp
08-14-2012, 02:55 PM
http://i48.tinypic.com/28beav5.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/30j1b9w.jpg

I'm going to go ahead and rewire the bike. This stuff is old, brittle, frayed, spliced - you name it. The headlight is wired on the low beam, the spot s wired on the bright setting. How do you all wire this thing with a spot light? Another switch? Additionally, where is a good place to get that fabric (?) covered wire? I'm going to need some extra for the brake light switch.

Additionally, the headlight has some parts rattling around so I'm going to replace it. Can I use this thing?
7" 6V MOTORCYCLE HALOGEN HEADLIGHT HEADLAMP CRYSTAL CLEAR H4 BULB 60/55W 6 VOLT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-6V-MOTORCYCLE-HALOGEN-HEADLIGHT-HEADLAMP-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-H4-BULB-60-55W-6-VOLT-/370546771810?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessorie s&hash=item56464f0762&vxp=mtr#ht_932wt_1126

What wattage can my old generator handle? Is there a good place to shop for a light? I'm seriously debating the 12 volt conversion as well. What all is needed besides a lawn mower alternator? The generator has recently been rebuilt so I'm not sure there is the need for a switch.

GreasySideUp
08-14-2012, 02:56 PM
I also could use a map holder if anyone knows any previous cannonballers that are not going on this trip that aren't using theirs anymore.

GreasySideUp
08-14-2012, 07:26 PM
One more question - I'm going to run rubber hose for the cannonball. My thought was to run a short bit of copper from each fitting with a double flare and hose clamps to hold the hose on. Is there a better way?

Charlie1012000
08-14-2012, 11:24 PM
One source for a complete wire set would be Walkers, there is other sources as they don't fabricate it themselves but I think they got pretty much all you need for the bike and knowledge in abundance also. Their mail respond used to be crap, but you can call them.

With the orig. Splitdorf DU7 generator you got about 30 watts of pure power, (5.5A x 6V =33 W) so a 60W sealed beam is a bit much and would only glow when the battery is empty. I wired the spot light to the parking light for better daylight visibility. There are options for the generator, fabricate a brace for a bigger generator or a small 12V alternator. If you don't go that route, at least an electronic regulator for the orig.gen. is a good insurance, at least I don't trust the ancient cut out system further than I can throw it to keep the battery healty.
http://www.splitdorfparts.com/

Chevrolet Sprint (suzuki) or Denso 18504-6220 is alternatives. I don't know if the Denso 6220 is the smallest. On the pic. it is a brace for a Chief. You can ask on the Virtual Indian forum for others that have made the switch, the pulley and pulley size is a factor. You put added load on the whining gears that could be tiresome in the long run, but if you don't need more than position and brake lights you can always hook it off if that should be the case.
This is a UK firm, silly large capacity alternators but good for references perhaps. Looks like 93 mm stator is the smallest.
http://brise.co.uk/alternators.html
US firm, hiding the origin.
http://www.ecae.com/alt1.html

Copper line stubs works fine, but is a bit thin walled and could destort with clamps, stronger mouth pieces could fairly easy be turned up on a lathe if you want. A good idea would be to hard solder the tube pieces, soft solder can crack.

Charlie1012000
08-16-2012, 12:05 PM
I'm a bit interested in what you found with the front wheel and it's bearings. I can't see in your pictures if it is tapered roller or ball bearings.

With the ball bearing hub hollow axle, there is a long left hand threaded bit and a shorter right hand thread. The shorter part should be threaded firm in the bottom of the right hand race, in the brake drum. That's the non adjustable side. Counted from the outside it should be a 5mm or 3/16" thick stop nut, brake shield spring washer, brake shield and bearing race.

On the other side the threaded race has 2 flats where the bearing play is adjusted, and the adjustment is secured with a fold over washer and last, there is a 8mm or 0.3" thick stop nut. The hollow axle should reach pretty much flush at both ends with their respective stop nuts. The distance from the race adj.flats to the outer end of the stop nut is somewhere around 9-10 mm or 0.35-0.40" and that should be enough with a gap of 4-5mm or 0.15-0.20" between the pivot axle nut and spokes.
I'm not going into tapered bearing hub or the grease metal shields and felts until I know what type of bearing it is.

GreasySideUp
08-16-2012, 03:13 PM
I dropped the wheels off with Trey at Oceana Cycles to be trued, I did not get into the bearings before doing that since I did not have the parts yet. I assume that they are tapered bearings and 29 wheels - can you tell from these pics? I'm not sure what the clincher rims look like, please confirm that these are at least drop center. With the wheel off, it looked like the front was out about an inch just by eyeballing, that is the reason for the shortened bell crank stud.

Charlie, do the wheels look like they are laced wrong or just nuts/washers out of order?

I have not been able to find a wiring harness so I have a decision to make to leave the wires as they are or build my own harness. Randy and George are out of harnesses. I'm thinking I'll just leave it as is and take some spare wire with me to fix anything that may need fixing along the way. I'll go through it all and replace any sections that are showing wear. If anyone has leads on a complete harness please point me in their direction.

I put gas in the tank and it is bone dry on the outside. That Caswell sealer really is a great product. I have a lot more confidence in it than stuff I've used in the past. I'm at a parts stop right now, tomorrow I'm going to try and make another tail light bracket for a new tail light I bought off Ebay. I don't want to destroy this one since it is original. It will be much safer for this ride to have working brake lights and I'm going to try an LED conversion. I'll post progress as I go.

Charlie1012000
08-16-2012, 06:10 PM
Do you mean that the tire was off in the fender by an inch? It sounds funny that the hub had to be sideshifted as there is just 4-5 mm or 0.15-20" gap before the nut touches the spokes. I think the hollow shaft is molested or wheel bearings/nuts assembled wrong.

You got orig. drop center rims that takes ordinary motorcycle tires and I should have taken a better look before I explained the ball bearing hub, you seems to have Timken hubs front and rear. Good, you have a hard time wearing them down! Basic measures is the same but other components to lock and adjust play.

Clincher is like kind of push bike tires where the tube air pressure presses out the tire sides against the rim, and is dangerous as with a puncture the tire looses grip on the rim and can flop around, fall off and twist up around the hub locking up completely.

According to the Indian 101 R&O the (edit: Front) rim needs to be laced away from the brake side by 3 to 5mm or 1/8" to 3/16th. A straight line from the brake side spoke flange (edit: flange INSIDE) should miss the rim edge by the meas.
(Edit: the front rim needs to be laced away from the brake side by 6.5 to 8mm or 1/4" to 5/16th. A straight line from the brake side spoke flange OUTSIDE should miss the rim edge by the meas. The rear rim is laced in center of the rear hub flanges)

Building a harness is dead easy and new is way better than what you have. You're just working to get out on the road so function is paramount. You need to change the long green gen. wire anyhow from what's seen in the pic. Use thick wires (I don't know your gauge numbers) and if you don't go that route of a complete harness, (tail light wire can be a bear to change) at least solder fittings as it is way safer than crimped.

One wire from all the consumers and one from the provider. Ground cables to the chassie from the generator, horn, battery and perhaps one extra in the headlight. You have a split wire amperemeter instead of the two turns ammeter in the scheme. Solder and finish up at the switch end, tape them up, adjust to length and finish the other end, coil up with tape, badabing badabam :D

Charlie1012000
08-17-2012, 07:58 AM
Reno is selling a brake light regulator for a single filament bulb that I assume is basicly a resistor and perhaps a diod. It's all well, but it is better with a separate brake light or 2 at the rear. At running the voltage is lowered with the resistor and at braking the resistor is bypassed for full voltage and bright light. The electric scheme is pictured here on page 28. The 2 headlights represents high and low beam.
http://www.reno.indianmoto.cz/index.php?action=katalog
http://www.reno.indianmoto.cz/show_image.php?obrazek=indian/1211_reg.jpg

I found these on the net somewhere, hope the owner doesn't mind me showing them here.

Charlie1012000
08-17-2012, 12:36 PM
Nice pictures with tips and tricks can be seen at Doug Wothke site
http://www.motosapiens.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=367&start=0&sid=db5f8dff51bbf15a6c07e758f89c2151
A source of wobble can also be wrong tire pressure front or rear, loose wheel bearings, wheels not in line, play at the head bearings or a loose handlebar clamping/headlight stalks. Maybe my bike have other issues but I needed to lower the front tire pressure way down.

GreasySideUp
08-22-2012, 08:19 PM
I had to take a few days off but made some great progress today and completely rewired the bike.
http://i49.tinypic.com/2n15qjb.jpg

The old wires were falling apart as I was taking them off. They would have been trouble for sure.

It was like Christmas yesterday, a bunch of parts came in from Randy Walkers.
http://i47.tinypic.com/t82edt.jpg

This is what a thousand dollars looks like. This is not a cheap hobby by any means.

I'm replacing the clutch and the gaskets. I've removed all the bolts, is there anything special I need to do to get the clutch side off? Does the clutch need to be engaged or depressed or does it matter? I can insert a screwdriver but I haven't pried yet - is that the best way or is there a better way?
http://i50.tinypic.com/14xgzo7.jpg

Does anything need to be taken apart further to get the cover off? While there, I've heard some differing opinions on how many springs to use in the clutch. I'll take any thoughts anyone has on the subject.

Here is a pic of the front fork elongated hole. I going to fill this, there is way too much slop. The forks are straight.

http://i47.tinypic.com/c5bub.jpg

The hand oil pump was shot so I put new leather plungers there. It should work much better now.

http://i45.tinypic.com/xcqd5e.jpg

450 bucks at the DMV today to register as well. That hurt! I should have done that sooner, they say 4-6 weeks to get an antique tag. I was thinking I could find a 1929 Virginia plate but that is proving to be more difficult than finding a bike!

I still have a ways to go....
http://i49.tinypic.com/206ybf8.jpg

brianbbs67
08-22-2012, 08:26 PM
I could find a 1929 Virginia plate but that is proving to be more difficult than finding a bike

I have been looking for a 1961 va tag for years, let me know if you find a source.

Also I have 2 va antique tags you could reregister if needed. 1 black and one yellow with blue letters. Let me know if you need.
Brian

Charlie1012000
08-22-2012, 10:42 PM
Don't pry! turn the clutch lever shaft clockwise with the case coming apart, that's a screw thread in there. You can use the screw action to help the case off a bit. Location pins and bottom pin bolt can bind some.

Charlie1012000
08-23-2012, 12:03 AM
At the inside of the case lid you can see if the clutch cage or the crank shaft gear have rubbed. If not, good and jump to the next stage. If the clutch cage have rubbed it is a sign the bearings are bad and the clutch pinbolts probably have bent a bit and needs straightening. Relatively easy fix. If the crank shaft gear has rubbed, that's bad news.

Charlie1012000
08-23-2012, 12:40 AM
Usually the intermediate gear is still in position in the case, it consists of a shaft with dual loose roller bearings in cages (10+10 facing outwards), a spacer and the gear. There usually isn't, but see if you can feel any play in the bearing before you scatter the rollers all over the floor! Otherwise reassemble it in the case lid to check play. The shaft is locked from turning by a shaft key. The thrust washers should be firm and staked in place.

Charlie1012000
08-23-2012, 07:26 AM
I use all springs, having less springs makes the pedal easier for parade duty but it is also slipping easier.
With the clutch plates off it's a good time to check the state the gearbox bearings are in, to know if you have to disassemble more. If not, check that all friction and steel plates individually slips easy in the cage and on the hub.
If you need to change bearings and take the hub off, with a dremel with a polishing rubber you can polish out or soften the rifts and valleys that have been formed on the hub spline ribs contact surfaces, usally they are small and the hub is hardened, but the steel plates move along these ribs very small distances in a subject of force from friction and oil and any sticking makes gears grind at shifting. Steel plate spline edges can be broken lightly with sand paper or file.

Clutch studs needs to be smooth and straight, friction plates move up and down on these. Every stud should fit perfectly plum and centered in the pressure plate holes and they are adjusted with quite light force. Don't file those holes, better to force the plate in place if unavoidable. After that checkup it shouldn't be but if neccessary if they stick, carefully file the friction plate(s) cutouts to equal play at all studs.

Clutch pressure plate ball bearing cage can split and should be checked thoroughly with magnifying glass, the same with the races. All balls should also have the same size, dodgy hardening could wear them uneven.

GreasySideUp
08-23-2012, 08:56 PM
I put new bushings in the front end today. The fit is much better. I had to borrow a press, I really need to get one of those for the garage. What a great tool.

http://i47.tinypic.com/2zjcsa0.jpg

Christmas part two. Jim sent me a brand new crash bar. This thing is a work of art, it will be the nicest thing on my bike and will be a great relief to stretch the legs out a bit on the ride.

http://i46.tinypic.com/1688x1t.jpg

On to the clutch. Everything inside looks really good. The engine bearings and gear side is tight. Everything is very clean, there is no metal at all.
http://i45.tinypic.com/snynvr.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/so34wn.jpg

The old clutch looks barely worn. The previous owner said it was starting to grab a little. The springs are shot though. You can see the difference in height here.
http://i46.tinypic.com/aemcxs.jpg

I bought a new clutch when I ordered the parts so I'm going to go ahead and start fresh.
http://i48.tinypic.com/2ljjpuf.jpg

The question I have after spending an hour looking for ball bearings that I dropped on two occasions - How do I compress the springs enough to get everything back together? Is there a trick to getting the spring plate back on? Do I need to clamp it? I remember having this issue with my harley years ago but I can't remember how I solved it.

Please give some tips on adjustment as well. I am going to locktite all these nuts on assembly, any issues there?

Charlie - thanks again for all the help. This thread is going to be great for others looking to do the same in the future.

Charlie1012000
08-24-2012, 04:58 AM
Thankyou Greasy! It's fun. I wish I was going to the Cannonball! I am trying to write for those that have no or less experience with the Scout so sometimes it might sound basic or too much info, but better that than the other way. On the other hand I might miss some info you need so I need lots of pictures, questions and replys to know where you stand or I feel like I am talking to my self. Guests and lurkers are also welcome with questions.

Charlie1012000
08-24-2012, 06:25 AM
Clutch pack starts with a friction plate innermost and try to get it as thick as the pack that was in there. If the pack is too thick you can leave out the last steel plate, having the last 2 friction plates back to back. You want as many steel plates as possible but the risk is that when engaging the clutch and separating the plates, the last steel plate is in risk of stepping off the clutch hub. I am mentioning this because the original clutch was packed with different thickness of friction plates that need to placed right and I have no idea what thickness the repro plates are, and therefore not how many steel plates that can be used.

To secure the clutch stud nuts you can use red locktite. Lots of rattling and heat going on in there but avoid overtighting the thin nuts. And it wouldn't be wrong with a liberal douse of penetrating locktite on the hub nut and crankshaft nut just for good measure. Original there should be thin washers under those nuts folded down in the hole in the gear, or down a flat in the clutch hub and up against a nut flat, securing them from loosing up.

To compress the springs there is a few tools you can make or buy. A strong suitable can, or coffee mug, and a ratcheting carrier band around the gearbox perhaps can be used. It can be done with just a pair of strong hands, putting on one nut at the time. Fiddly and I have to assemble without washers first. The nuts, original, should have the same sort of folding washers here to secure them, folded down against the circumference of the plate and up against a nut flat.

Charlie1012000
08-24-2012, 08:33 AM
A racing tip for stuff often taken apart (avoids ruining gaskets each time) if you trust the sealing surfaces would be to glue the gasket to one of the surfaces and grease, hard wax or graphite powder the other, or use 2 thin gaskets glued to each surface lubed in between. The bottom stud can leak and a fiber washer under a nyloc nut can prevent that (nut used a couple of times, to prevent the stud to back out)

indianut
08-24-2012, 09:02 AM
I hope that is not a crack right behind the front left engine mount lug.

Charlie1012000
08-24-2012, 09:23 AM
Hm...if it would be, any suggestions on how to fix it for the rally?
it's not looking good but I hope it is a streak of grease..... You should scrub up before showing yours here, Greasy...!

drewehe
08-24-2012, 03:10 PM
I hope that is not a crack right behind the front left engine mount lug.

Sure does look like a crack.

Better call Wiily the Welder.

GreasySideUp
08-24-2012, 06:32 PM
I just lost a long post for some reason. If you are talking about the engine case, I'm not sure what that is. There is something flaking off from a few spots on the motor in various places like that. I'll try and take some more pics.

I used some clamps to get the clutch springs compressed and back together.
http://i48.tinypic.com/35bh21j.jpg

The key was running the worm gear counterclockwise to get the cover back on. Thanks for the tip Charlie!

You can see the battery case filler in this pic is an old paperback. I guess that will be useful to fill the time when I break down!

The tail light finally arrived.
http://i47.tinypic.com/25gezpc.jpg

How do I wire this thing? It has two bulbs, both with a single wire. I assume run the original wire to the bottom bulb for the running light/license plate light and run the other wire from the brake switch. Where do I get power to the brake switch from? I was thinking of running a parallel wire from the dash right next to the tail light, is there a better way to wire it? Charlie, that pic you sent from reno shows it going directly from the generator to the switch and then to the regulator. If there is a regulator on this bike I haven't found it yet. I did run a 15A fuse to the battery. I'm hoping to upgrade to LED's although I don't know if I can get them here in time.

One page back on the hand oil pump - there were three leather gaskets in the kit. Is one of these a spare? If not, where does it go?

vlscout
08-24-2012, 10:19 PM
One page back on the hand oil pump - there were three leather gaskets in the kit. Is one of these a spare? If not, where does it go?
Goes on the Foot Valve in the tank facing Up Regards Phil

HDpanman
08-25-2012, 07:06 AM
My son has a 101 and I want to thank you for going so far in depth on this thread. It will prove invaluble when I get into it and try to get it roadworthy with him.. thanks again and keep it coming guys..

Charlie1012000
08-25-2012, 08:11 AM
Yeah...bring a good book! And an umbrella! Nah..with a twig and some bailing wire you can repair a lot on the 101. Your progress is looking good Greasy! We had multiple power cut-outs in my area so I lost several posts. I attach a pic of what looks like a crack and worries us onlookers a bit.

The brakelight, you're right about the rear light and when it comes to the brakelight the easiest would be to wire it directly to the battery through a separate (5A) fuse close to the battery. It'll be hot all the time and can drain the battery much as the horn can, but the fuse prevents the wires from burning.

Your regulator, moody and frail, is behind the end cap of the generator. Hopefully Bob already invested in a solid state regulator for it? otherwise it would be one of the best investment there is, saves all electrical hardware.

http://www.splitdorfreg.com/blancard/splitgenart2.html

What's ruining many batterys apart from frying from faulty charging and cooking dry, is the vibration and jolts in a hardtail motorcycle. I cobbled up a sprung bottom from car window handle springs for the battery and foam cushion for the sides.

Charlie1012000
08-25-2012, 10:19 AM
The third leather gasket is in the foot valve with lips facing upwards, as Vlscout wrote. Book says check valve body. That leather cup is preventing from back flow, when you pull the oil pump handle the cup collapses and oil is drawn in the pump tube, and when you press, the cup seals the inlet and oil is pushed thru a sprung check ball valve. Both of those is a source of trouble as oil leaks and fill the crankcase, so much that the company added a third valve, the petcock.
If you're going to ride with the petcock open, before you are familiar with the oil consumption and as a possibility to quickly add oil that pump can't drip a drop even every 10 minutes, vibration and heat from the motor and sun will make the oil slip through. (Check with a oil filled hand pump)

A ball seat is tighter with a narrow good seat than a poor wide and its very difficult to produce a good wide seat. It'll wear itself wide and hopefully remain tight. The seat can be fixed by grinding the seat body down flat and/or drilling the hole a smudge larger to there's damn close to nothing left of the old seat. With a careful tap on a new 1/4" ball, preferebly hammer on a flat face punch placed on top of the ball, 1 maybe 2 taps is usually enough depending how hard the material is. Press a seat in an arbor press or pillar drill is also used. I've never succseeded with paste grinding a seat. A bit stronger spring wouldn't hurt but a ceramic or plastic ball would be lighter and better for the finished seat.

GreasySideUp
08-25-2012, 12:09 PM
http://i47.tinypic.com/2d7alaf.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/33le1x2.jpg

It looks like a previous repair, there is a different color metal there. What looks like the crack is where it ends and is slightly elevated. Are these motors prone to cracking at that point? That same metal is on a few other places as well.

I am almost finished with the brakes. I needed to put new linings on the brake drum shoe in the front. ( Rivets in brake drum shoe linings key word for searches) There was no one in town that would work on them, they started referring me to each other so I finally decided to give it a whirl myself.

I punched out the old rivets with a straight punch
http://i47.tinypic.com/2eey81y.jpg

I thought the lining would break if I bent it but it turned out to be much more flexible than it looked. I lined it up and drilled pilot holes
http://i48.tinypic.com/209nbky.jpg

Then came back and drilled 5/32 holes just larger than the rivet shaft. After that I counter sunk for the rivet head. To do this again I would not have used a tapered countersink. It would have left a little more material on the brake lining.

http://i48.tinypic.com/67pdtj.jpg

The tricky part was mushrooming the rivets. I put a flat punch in the vise and came back with a tapered punch for the mushroom. This was a four handed job but I managed it somehow.
http://i47.tinypic.com/r9lxsk.jpg

My punch bottomed out a little early so I need to go buy a fatter taper to get them nice and snug. The first one took about an hour, the second one about 20 minutes. I could probably do another in 10 minutes if I had to.
http://i47.tinypic.com/qxowud.jpg

Charlie1012000
08-25-2012, 02:19 PM
It'll take you through the C-ball! And if not you'll know how it should be done...;) You'll see the rivet head underside is almost flat so sinking the holes, a end mill should have been better. Or grinding an ordinary drill flat. A board end with a nail sticking up could be used as a depth stopper. But you take what you have and made it! A rib of tape would have made a good template. What I think is the worst thing is that instructions doesn't come with the bands!

What's flaking off the case is bondo or JB. It seems like the whole front snout is replaced and if it doesn't leak it's OK, and if something would happen you'll meet the most skilled people at the C-ball and they do the utmost for you to continue. Ripping out the engine is a 20min job. In 12 with rubber hoses in stead of copper and a 90 deg. power tool to get under the gearbox and if the bloody chainguard is parted like Jeff Alperin have done.

http://alperin.wildapricot.org/resources/CoolIrisAlbum.html?album=RemanufacturingTheBeast16&title=Remanufacturing+The+Beast+16&date=Jun+29,+2012

Gearbox bolt head, if placed on top of the lug, or the nut if put that way, could have a short rod welded to it to prevent it from turning all the way round. Saves some cursing... Then at the underside a socket laboured in place first and a short extension shaft passing the cross shaft will do undoing the bolt easier.

It's not common for the case to crack there and especially the whole snout, the engine could have been in an accident. Check the crankcase bolts and motor mountings, especially the rear bolt at the gearbox, if nothing moves, nothing changes hopefully. Leaks can be fixed with sandblasting and more JB.
All in all things are looking good!

GreasySideUp
08-25-2012, 06:31 PM
http://i46.tinypic.com/1410aiu.jpg

I got a new double flaring tool that I had to try out. I made a brake wire holder out of copper and will mount it with clips outside the radius of the fender. I've seen some bikes with a similar radius drilled into the fender but my fender has no holes. The previous wires were taped to the supports so this is a step up. I love the look of copper on these old bikes.

The double flare was easy if you haven't seen it before.
http://i46.tinypic.com/2d6tb9j.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/29snia.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/33kak3s.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/2yvkosn.jpg

I received a luggage rack from Roger today. It is in primer but I think it is made of copper as well. The question is, paint it black or strip it? I think that it would look great in copper as well. Maybe paint it black and distress it a little.
http://i50.tinypic.com/b51sp4.jpg

Does anyone know how to age bolts? I saw an episode of American Restoration where they soaked them in something overnight and it gave them a nice patina. I can't remember what it was though.

Rubone
08-25-2012, 08:10 PM
Does anyone know how to age bolts? I saw an episode of American Restoration where they soaked them in something overnight and it gave them a nice patina. I can't remember what it was though.
Just put them in a bucket and piss on them!
And I really hope that luggage rack isn't made of copper! If it is do not put anything on it you are attached to....
Robbie

Charlie1012000
08-25-2012, 09:21 PM
Nice progress, the tube is a lot safer than tape I'd say. The T's are common plummers copper tube fittings. I haven't seen the program but battery acid would make them rust in an instance and phosphoric acid makes a dull grey surface. Any acid would stain them. I guess Caswell got something to try out.

Honestinjun'
08-26-2012, 09:57 AM
Just put them in a bucket and piss on them!
And I really hope that luggage rack isn't made of copper! If it is do not put anything on it you are attached to....
Robbie

I recommend cat piss.it'll rust instantly. Only problem is to get the cat to piss on them.

GreasySideUp
08-26-2012, 09:02 PM
I got the jigsaw out and fashioned a new tail light mount from some scrap aluminum. I couldn't bring myself to destroy an original one and the new one needed to be a little larger for the tail light I ordered.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2lsiiwh.jpg

It is a little rough around the edges but should work fine for the ball.

http://i49.tinypic.com/345ju4l.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/3465ops.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/350ph6u.jpg

I need to get my wheels back so I can ride it to the SPCA. I put some cat nip in the tail light, hopefully some strays will age it for me.

I hid the brake switch as best I could. Only two more wires to hook up on the tail light and the wiring will be complete!

http://i45.tinypic.com/2hcdg6f.jpg

The list is up. Hopefully I can fill that thing with red checks and get this thing back on the road in a few days.

I tightened the rivets on the brakes with a new punch but next time I need to order this tool for the pads.
http://macsautoparts.com/ford-model-t-riveting-tool-for-brake-linings-x2018/camid/MDT/cp/JS0R3CHL1107034/

Aircraft spruce has a similar tool for relining drum brake pads as well if anyone else is looking.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/brakeliningrivset.php
http://i46.tinypic.com/29glxf4.jpg

brianbbs67
08-26-2012, 11:01 PM
"I need to get my wheels back so I can ride it to the SPCA. I put some cat nip in the tail light, hopefully some strays will age it for me."

Your not far off. Industrial nh4, ammonia will get you close to what you want. Look for 30% or more.

Charlie1012000
08-26-2012, 11:17 PM
You're a bit on your own with checking off some of items on that board Greasy! Yep, the T-ford tool looks great. Clutch adjustment is quite easy, twist the screw out of slack and position the lever towards the 2'o clock nut in the case, turn the lever and try the other side if it doesn't quite line up. Adjust the rod so at unengaged the heelpad rests on the footrest but does have some slack, (1/8"-1/4" or at your choice) but doesn't drag the clutch. That lever might be further back than some have it, but In my opinion the sweetspot is just right where the foot is in the best position and lever is where the clutch is most sensible and getaways are smooth and nice. If the lever is positioned too far forward it could produce some jerky starts.

Charlie1012000
08-26-2012, 11:32 PM
"I need to get my wheels back so I can ride it to the SPCA. I put some cat nip in the tail light, hopefully some strays will age it for me."

Your not far off. Industrial nh4, ammonia will get you close to what you want. Look for 30% or more.
Catfood would be a safer bet, I haven't heard of cats gather around a bowl of ammonia :D Seriously, ammonia would then have 3 purpouses, age your nuts, rinse your sinuses AND scare the cats away!
I'm just joking Brian.

Charlie1012000
08-27-2012, 01:44 AM
When you took apart your wheels it was apparent what too much grease lead to. A more frequent problem when felt sealings are poor in the first place and bad design from the factory is a fact. A tablespoon of (pref. marine type) grease for each bearing is enough for a year and avoid add via the zirk grease nipple but take apart, clean and repack bearings. Timken angular roller bearings are tougher than the ball bearing races that are more fragile and prone to chip, flake and "brinell", so I recommend more frequent checkups for ball bearings.
Wheel bearing grease deflector system is a problem, basicly there isn't enough space for a proper seal and depending on what you have, what you bought and your resources, perhaps have to compromize. It is crammed at the bearings and a matter of make space for extra retainers to contain the felt ring. It would be nice with a pic of the parts and see what info you have.
On the front brake plate there's a spill outlet hole on the bulb underside that many times is clogged. Same with the front brake cam lubrication hole.

Charlie1012000
08-27-2012, 04:10 AM
I'd consider a more heat resistant silicone plug wires (copper core is imperative for a magneto) for the C-ball, than the more popular cloth wires that can soak oil and moisture, and perhaps that choice goes neck and neck with plastic that have the habit of melting.

Rear brakes are a bit fiddly to adjust, and of course needs readjusting after a while with new bands. Apply brake lightly and when the top band is feeling firm on the drum, the lower band should be possible to wiggle a little.

If not installing a new carb. float, at least check that it isn't loose and wiggle on the fork. Jeff Alperin lost the little nut on the underside and was stranded. He didn't carry bailing wire I'd say! Too much side to side play at the pivot shaft isn't good either and difficult to refurbish, the float can bind at the bowl sides. I had a new foam float that I had to file and narrow quite a lot to avoid binding.

I don't remember my carb's gas level height when the float valve is seated, the only measure that is relevant. Schebler book doesn't mention gas surface level, but distance to top of the float as 7/16", so not to go by as another float weight gives another gas surface level. If hard starting when cold, long warmup and you need to choke when warm, rise the float level a tad (max 2mm or 1/16 at a time). It should need just crack the throttle open a tiny bit when kicking to let the low speed circuit do its work, no freaking primer kicks when warm as some dribble with all the time. High consumption or flooding when warm, lower the level.

GreasySideUp
08-27-2012, 05:38 AM
Is there a trick to removing the exhaust? I've got the bolts out but it feels like I need a hammer to loosen it from the manifolds.

Hopefully my wheels will be ready today and I'll let you know what's inside.

axeric
08-27-2012, 07:15 AM
I admire you GSU. I think you are showing the true Cannonball spirit.

Charlie1012000
08-27-2012, 08:56 AM
Usually the exhausts slide down in the collector a bit, then its try to turn them and jiggle them out, otherwise you have to lower the collector. They need to kind of fit well or it smokes everywhere. Oven cleaner can get the carbon out and them shiny again.
OK, I was talking about when it sits on the bike, probably they're just stuck in the manifold, kind of good and bad, leaks less.
Ok,OK Im talking in my nightcap, you got 40's cylinders and custom exhausts. I am in 1929 in my head! Yours should just be slid in the cylinders but the spigots isn't sturdy at all, and crack easy. I would be careful, and demount the silencer first as the outlets points in different directions.

Charlie1012000
08-27-2012, 10:05 AM
I edited reply No 77 regarding lacing front and rear rim.

GreasySideUp
08-27-2012, 12:09 PM
One thing before taking off the cam lid would be to check and note the ignition timing, it can take a lot of grief before you find out if the mag has to be set 1 cog off the mark. It happend to me and the reason was my magneto guy (Hm.. that's me) put an mag. internal part 180 deg. wrong and you don't know what's done before in your engine.

The lid is pinned with 3 location pins (2 for -31 yr mod.) to the case and is a souce of binding, apart from the shafts. There are 2 small putroding lips on the lid circumference that can be used to pry and tap on to avoid chafing the sealing surfaces, but still it could be a bear to get off. Try to pull it off parallel. Plastic car interior pry bars is good alternative tools to the regular carpenter hammer nail tounge.

When taking off the cam lid, in order to try to keep the cams and intermediate gears in place and position (at least first time before you know the markings) it is neccessary to demount the oil pump and push back on the shaft. Original there is markings on the gears and it would be good to know if they are aligned right or not, all sorts of misfits could be stuffed in there and markings could be off, or intermediate gears could be flipped over, so you want to know if that's the case. Your engine is working fine so it just a matter of putting it back the way it is. If you can't see all markings make your own with a dab of paint.

How do I check the ignition timing as mentioned above with the cam lid on? What is that procedure? Do the gears stay on the case side or the cam lid side? I am having a bear of a time getting this cover off. There is a pin near the top right, one at the 4 O clock position and I'm not sure where the other one is. The right side of the lid is loose, the left is stuck. Do I need to do anything with the valve lifter? It seems like it is stuck at that spot. I'm going to head back to the auto parts store to get some plastic pullers like you mentioned.
http://i45.tinypic.com/24cws5j.jpg

On a brighter note, I finished the electrical. The brake light works! It looks like I lost my headlight in the process though so I'm going to have to find another one. There were some loose parts rattling around inside so it was only a matter of time before it quit.

I'm debating on the color of the rack. Red or black? Is there an original color to these? Additionally, which way does it mount? The longer bar towards the rear or the front? I see pictures of them mounted both ways. One way it lines up with the fold in the fender so it makes sense to go that way.

http://i46.tinypic.com/34eyyz7.jpg

Charlie1012000
08-27-2012, 01:15 PM
I'm saying nothing... red blends in and is less visible and more elegant, black goes in style with the frame, crashbar and handlebar and more HD like, make the eyesore as big and ugly as possible so people think it should be that way......:-) That's why them bikes always look better the more stuff that falls off.... It's your choice, original is red or black. Long legs rear gives more distance to the seat, hence more room for your butt and back in big bumps.

Charlie1012000
08-27-2012, 01:57 PM
There's a couple of ways, but without special tools the way is to lift the head and measure on the piston direct. If the plugs wheren't slanted as you have, a S- bent piston feeler could be made of an old spoke. If you should have a tight engine and if either of the side covers are open, a degree wheel can be fastened to the crankshaft and a balloon or water pillar could tell you where TDC is if you won't like to lift a head. I guess you have neither and wouldn't like to lift the head,

---so chuck those ideas.---( Edit: When the breakers just open with the lever in advance position the measure could be checked roughly by taking a piece of wire and bend to an "L" where the the foot is about 13mm or 1/2" , put it thru the plug hole. Then cut the wire foot short until the wire just reach piston top while the "L" shaft is resting on the combustion comp. floor)

With a spanner on the gearbox sprocket nut and in 3rd gear pull the ---rear---

(Edit: Front cylinder is better as with that, the rear cam is in tension from the valve springs with less risk the rear cam fall out with the cam cover. The front cam you push back when you remove the cam cover, )

Front cylinder in compression mode and feel with the thumb when it is at top, pull it back a bit, and with the ignition at full advance turn the motor forward until breakers open (way easier with 4 eyes and a cigarrett paper). Now you have a base and can take off the cam cover and paint a line on each sprocket where they meet. When that's done you can check if you see the original markings on the sprockets and turn the engine until they line up, it can take a few revulotions. If they do, fine and make a mindnote of that! :-)

Charlie1012000
08-27-2012, 02:39 PM
The pin at the top is a screw that doubles as the exhaust lifter lever stopper, you need to unscrew that. The exhaust lifter shaft can follow with the cover allright. and the 3rd location pin is at top left corner. The cams and gears usually stays in the case, you want that to happen. Just remember to push back on the oil cam shaft. It's just a matter of jiggle it straight and parallell and not pry too much. You'll get the hang of it in short order, it doesn't always needs a prying tool to get off. There's just 7 shafts and 3 location pins that resists.

GreasySideUp
08-27-2012, 05:37 PM
The above post was exactly what I needed. I finally figured out that the stopper was holding everything together - I spent 2 hours trying to figure out what the case was hanging up on and took another trip to the store to get some interior wedges. It is so simple now that it is apart! I put some paint marks on everything, I couldn't find any marks on the idler gears in the middle.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2w3yo2r.jpg

Tomorrow starts everything going back together. A new seal on the cam cover, oil pump and breather gasket should finish this side. Front end, fender and locktite on every other bolt after that. I just got word from the shop that all the spokes are frozen on the rims, they are likely original so I think I'm going to make the trip on the square wheels. I don't have the time or money to get new rims here and put back together in time for the trip. I didn't notice anything when riding, only a bit when spinning the wheels while on the lift so hopefully they'll be all right.

Charlie1012000
08-27-2012, 06:54 PM
Mechanical beauty in design and pure functionality! Can you get the other marks to line up, then you can mark the idle gears with a file or mandrel or something, it would make assembly a bit easier on a rainy parking lot in the middle of the night. Mark the idlers 1 and 2 or upstairs and downstairs or something also as they are identical but might have slightly different shaft diam. They are new or turned over for some reason. I'm afraid the paint won't stay long.

Sorry to hear about the wheels. Rims usually are possible to torque right, and slightly bent are possible to straighten in a press so rims are far from shot, but it takes a day to respoke a pair, shorter for a bicycle pro.mechanic. Try to balance them, lead stripes around a spoke, fishing sink or from an old car tire lead, split lead bits pinched around a spoke can be used secured with tape.

It might just be the stopper pin that was the culprit for the cover leak! It is difficult to fasten, I have to use a locking plier for that, gorges the pin base but.....

When you are about to adjust the valves, a prof. tool would be a ultra exclusive Walmart vip lounge rubber band with a silver plated paper clip (it looked like that!) to hang up the covers with, I saw it on one of Jeff pic's in George Y's shop! I've never been able to afford that yet!

I can see one of the lifter bushing is loose and hanging on it's shaft. It really needs to be glued in place in the cover with some designated product. Take care not to glue the shaft in the bushing but still let it harden with the cover in place on the engine.

GreasySideUp
08-27-2012, 07:52 PM
I can see one of the lifter bushing is loose and hanging on it's shaft. It really needs to be glued in place in the cover with some designated product. Take care not to glue the shaft in the bushing but still let it harden with the cover in place on the engine.

Are you talking about the left bushing? I didn't even notice that. Good catch! What do I use to use to glue it in place?
http://i50.tinypic.com/fmt2d5.jpg

Here is another angle if you see anything in there. I assume those small ticks are the timing marks. This was taken before I painted marks. I need to open up the magneto and take a look at what is going on in there. Is there a mark on the case anywhere to line these up to?

While we are talking valves, can you talk me through that adjustment as well? Step by step would be great.

Thanks!

indianut
08-27-2012, 08:23 PM
are you really trying to convince someone to GLUE a Loose Bushing into a case?

Charlie1012000
08-27-2012, 09:05 PM
All's looking fine Greasy! That's the marks. Cam and crank gear marks will line up fine and what's interesting then, is to know is if the mag beeing cogged different, a cog off or the like. Can you, I assume the gears mutual position haven't been altered, get the magneto gear mark and cam gear marks line up the same pattern as with your paintings, then it is all right.

Magneto gear mark is the only marking I know of, but I don't have that much experience with Splitdorf, I'm more familiar with Bosch.

I don't know what products or resources you have available where you live, there's other brands than Locktite. The 600 series is cylindrical adhesive for bushings and bearings and different products is used in various gap ranges and enviroments. A tube is expensive just for a drop's usage, but an industrial mechanical shop should have some. In a pinch use red threadlocker.

Charlie1012000
08-27-2012, 09:18 PM
are you really trying to convince someone to GLUE a Loose Bushing into a case?
What other options do you have with few resources and little time? How many days did it take to get notice that the spokes where frosen? Whittle up a new bushing is a 30 min job, but travel around and find somebody that care to do it can take days. And it takes an hour to explain each time. You also have the risk that the cover hole is worn out of center and a new bushing will bind the cover. The shaft isn't turning but supporting and a proper product would be sufficient in my mind. But I should have mentioned the option of fabricate a new bushing.

Charlie1012000
08-28-2012, 12:20 PM
A good compromise is to adjust both valves when piston is in top dead center at compression stroke and best is at 1 crankshaft revolution from where the valve is at its highest lift. It's difficult to know where crankshaft is positioned when turning the motor through the gearbox, but watching the valve action and with some feel, you can get close enough, the cam base circle is quite long with a standard cam. If you want to be that picky, basicly from TDC turn the crank a bit forward for the intake and a bit backward for the exhaust valve.

Then it's just a matter of check the existing play, and determine if it is worth to adjust or not. 1937 book says 0,13-0,18mm or 0.005"-0.007"at both intake and exhaust.

On flatheads the play gets smaller and smaller until it is zero and the valve starts to leak and possible burn. For that reason a flathead requires more frequent valve lash checkups and I'd like to adjust on the loose side, 0.007 feeler gauge slips easy through on the Indian especially on the exhaust valve. I use the 0.005 feeler gauge just as a service gauge to ask myself should I adjust? yes or no.

When adjusting there's 3 parts that is loose and turns, the rod, nut and screw, so I loosen up the stopnut just so I can turn the screw with some resistance, that way it's easier to turn the screw with some presicion. The screw is fine threaded and there's a history of broken screws and shredded nuts, so don't overtighten, firm and secure but not overdo it. A dab of penetrating green locktite won't hurt.
The adjusting screw head can and will wear an indention where the valve stem hits and it can affect the measure and make the mechanism noisier. When cylinder is off in some time it is a good time to grind it flat, but it is important to have the surface square or it will push the valve askew.

GreasySideUp
08-29-2012, 06:38 PM
A trip to Walmart netted a few more goodies.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2h2fgcp.jpg

I went with a bicycle speedometer from Schwin. The directions we get are turn by turn with mileage in 1/10th increments. No GPS allowed. I couldn't find an Indian Speedometer for this bike so I think this one will do just fine. We are required to have a red reflector for some of the states so I got one that flashes and has a 600hr battery life. Lastly some deer whistles. Hopefully they work on Elk and Buffalo as well as deer in the national parks. We will be heading by Old Faithful on day 10.

Cotten sent me a new float for the carb and directed me to a post on the virtual indian site.

http://virtualindian.org/11techleaktest.html
http://i47.tinypic.com/2hrd4jm.jpg

That is a number 8 stopper to pressurize the intake and see if there are any leaks. Everything looks good so I'll keep the inlet gaskets I ordered as spares.
http://i47.tinypic.com/15kspu.jpg
Crash bars mounted. These are extremely well built.
http://i47.tinypic.com/dmpf2v.jpg

The third leaf was cracked all the way through. I found a spare leaf easier than I found a steel rivet. I took a trip back to Mr Evans shop and he turned a steel bolt for me to hammer in. I have to get a lathe. That thing is awesome and is a skill I would love to acquire.
http://i48.tinypic.com/awvyib.jpg

The front end is back together. The new pivot shaft I bought is too big for the new bushing so I'm going to go with the old one and keep it as a spare. The bolts that hold the fender to the frame were backwards and scraping the fender. With those reversed and put in the proper way there is a ton of room left. You can see I went with the Coker wide whitewalls. I've always been partial to the whitewalls but I've never seen them on a Scout. We'll see how they go over on the ride. I have an O-ring chain on the way so it should be a lot cleaner than a traditional oiled chain.
http://i47.tinypic.com/347ierr.jpg

Lastly MBM machine hooked me up this morning with a new bushing for the cam lid. We went with a bearing grade bronze. There were steel in there, I'm not sure if it was originally steel or bronze as everything else is made of bronze. Either way it should be fine for the next 69k miles. I've got to put the case back together tonight and make sure everything fits.

Lastly, I ran into some more issues with the front wheel after getting it back from the shop this morning. The inner axle is stripped on the left side. There is not enough meat on the threads left to properly adjust the play in the wheel. The book says to leave more play than you would think for long bearing life so I left it with the machine shop when I picked up the cam lid and we'll see what they come up with. I don't have enough time to have another one sent out.

Charlie, do I pump these wheels full of grease until it squeaks out the sides? It said to pack the bearings so I got the marine grade like you said.

I'm off to the garage....

Buzz_Kanter
08-29-2012, 08:44 PM
Amazing, absolutely amazing. Congrats on all you have done so far and I very much look forward to riding with you next week.

Charlie1012000
08-29-2012, 09:16 PM
I think Schwinn had some business doing with the factory way back with the moto wheel if I don't remember wrong from some book, so the tach might not be that far off as you think! I tried that stuff and thought I could do better so I fastened a neodyne magneto in stead of that tiny one at the spokes and burnt the computer in 2 minutes flat of riding!

That stopper is a tool that is used far to seldom, a lot of trouble can be avoided with that. Might get handy in the rally, you never know...
A fine crashbar, I have to order one of those. Jeff saved a lot of damage when his bike did a somersault and I slow dropped my bike a few times.

Whitewalls look really good! I roll on some Avon S+M tires and need to run very low tire pressure or the ride gets a bit nervous and hash.

Really good with the new lifter shaft bushing! You got the original steel there but the bronze will hold up fine i guess. The shafts vibrate and bend from the cam action and lifters.
A broken leaf do no good so it's better that's fixed. If you packed the leaf springs with marine grease you will have as good ride as a spanking new Indian in 1929 fresh from the showroom!
Marine grease is generally better in cope with moisture, have better rust prohibition and mostly have better clinging properties. A thin layer in the hub to prevent rust and moisture and the roller case packed by hand until full is enough grease until well into next year. Good for the steering head bearing as well.

The steel the hollow axle is made of is soft and strips easily and the slidefit for the bearing loosen up also, so it's good if you get a new one in tougher material. The felt sealing retainers is a problem, the felt need to be contained on both sides by washers and mounted the right way, not a big problem on the bearing adjustable side, but on the brake side there's little space and without the proper retainer parts it is problem.
I don't know what you have or bought new but one solution without the proper parts perhaps would be to fabricate a washer or ribs and tack weld it to the retainer lip and then try to pack the felt ring in between. A little oil in the felts prevents the sealing surface from burn. Original I think the felt was denser than available today and impregnated with bee's wax.

GreasySideUp
08-30-2012, 08:17 AM
Oil time today. Am I correct in that the tranny and primary share oil? It looks like there are filler ports on both. I assume you put it on the rear stand, pull the top screw on the primary cover and fill until it overflows. Any idea how much oil it takes as a gauge? I know a lot of Chief owners plugged the through hole to separate the clutch but I forgot to check that when I had the clutch off. I'll have to email the old owner or fill from the transmission and make sure it flows out the clutch overflow.

Please tell me if I am way off base here.

I'm going to run HD straight 50W. There is lots of folklore out there on oil usage, there is a great thread on the subject on this forum. The oil pump is pretty well calibrated for it and that is what the previous owner used so I'll stick with that for this trip.

GreasySideUp
08-30-2012, 08:26 AM
Amazing, absolutely amazing. Congrats on all you have done so far and I very much look forward to riding with you next week.


Don't jinx me yet Buzz! It is in no small part from all the help on these forums, a great community in the antique world, some awesome local shops and an amazing wife who is giving me the time off from the honey-do list. Charlie gets his own shout out for the detailed discussions here, those will be valuable for others down the road looking to rebuild a scout in the future.

I'm looking forward to it as well. I'm shooting to fire it up tomorrow. Hopefully I'll give your old JD a run for her money! Race for pinks?

http://i45.tinypic.com/14398m.jpg
I made a deal with my wife that I would finish a few other projects while getting this done. This table is made from an old oak tree that was hit by lightning down the street from us. I caught them when they were cutting it up and asked for a few slabs. They were drying in my garage for the last year, I finished this simultaneously with the gas tank to free up some space in the garage.

My grass is 2 feet long and I have some painting to do before I leave on Tuesday so I'm not out of the woods yet.

Off to the garage...

Charlie1012000
08-30-2012, 09:04 AM
Well, the thing with the oil is that there is a lot of oils with friction reducers put in them and that can be a problem with wet clutches. Is your HD oil suitable for wet clutches? I haven't tried, but many step-through scooters have centrifugal clutches with oils that may suit. I'm NOT saying automatic transmission fluid. I'll stick my neck out here when I say that people in general don't know what they are talking about, when they're talking about straight and multi-grade oils. Multi grade flows easier when cold, (20-) and have the same viscosity when hot (-50) as a straight 50 oil. And there's even less knowledge about detergent oils and non detergent oils. A modern oil is detergent oil weather it is straight or multi grade. Non detergent is hard to get by, short of impossible, in an ordinary gas station or at your regular vendor (and stupid to purchase in my opinion). You don't want soot, acids and moisture to sludge in any motor.

Charlie1012000
08-30-2012, 09:43 AM
You're right with the filling procedure. The oil level screw is just below the clutch lever. Tranny and primary share oils if not alterations are done to prevent that. Very few have done that and I am doubtful if it is an improvement. It'll take about half a minute before the levels equal out. For that to happen there's a tiny ventilation hole at the shift stick tower, just below the rear bushing, that needs to be open and it is often clogged or covered with grit.

I'll never remember the amount of oil, as the rest will go in the oil tank, i think a 1 liter or 2 pint container will be enough. It's less if the gearbox isn't drained with it's designated drainage. I recommend to do that in general, to get rid of more metal shavings, and even better if there is a magnetic plug. I fitted 2 O-rings with a brass mesh in between in each of the transient holes between the primary and tranny.

The filler port I think you're seeing, is most probably the gear shift detent housing. Under the screw cap there is a spring and a steel ball that holds the gear shifter fork in place. If you experience gears slips out of gear you can (or have to) either change to a stiffer spring or shims up with a thick washer. Another trick that Burt Munro had to do was to fabricate a gear stick gate that firmly held the gearstick in place, perhaps fastened with one (longer) head bolt. Gear slip is a fairly common problem and utterly annoying. Maybe something to be prepared for.

GreasySideUp
08-30-2012, 09:55 PM
The cam cover went right back on. The new bushing is going to work out great.
http://i45.tinypic.com/hs6bux.jpg

Pic of the breather flapper. Is this all there is to it or should there be a spring or something in there?
http://i47.tinypic.com/29dwehd.jpg

****Important UPDATE***** I blew up two of these LED's below on the first ride. I think the voltage from the regulator may have been dialed up too much or they can't handle spikes. I havent talked to George but will try and update with him after the trip.

The LED lights arrived from George at Highspeed motors and work awesome. There are LED's on the sides as well pointing outwards. I got red lights for the tail light with white on the outside for the license plate. (My vintage plate came in today as well!) The front is all white for the spot.

http://i47.tinypic.com/352jbl1.jpg

I'm not sure how this will work at night since they are directional but for the day time it is many times brighter than the lamp that was there originally. I should have taken a pic of the spot with the vintage bulb but you can see the difference in the tail light.

http://i50.tinypic.com/zsmww9.jpg

Notice the first pic does not have the lens installed with the old light and the second is still brighter.


http://i46.tinypic.com/15zi3c7.jpg
check out how much of the floor is lit up from the license plate light.
http://i49.tinypic.com/2qnqno7.jpg


http://i49.tinypic.com/287q1wl.jpg

The biggest difference with these lights is that the ammeter barely moves with these on. The total draw is in milliamps. The technology really is amazing on these LED's. Not quite stock, but I have no issues with people seeing me better.

The tank is mounted, back brake mounted, wiring finished, oil pump mounted, exhaust mounted, luggage rack fitted, tail light finished, plate mounted.

http://i47.tinypic.com/zjdx7l.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/29g1uz4.jpg

I'm starting to check off some red X's on the board. Tony up at MBM welded up my center axle for the front rim and re-threaded it. It is ready and I'll pick it up tomorrow morning and finish up the front end. Some plumbing and odds and ends....

GreasySideUp
08-30-2012, 10:27 PM
Another question. The top of my oil pump plunger spins freely. How is this thing put together. Right now it is impossible to turn the shaft past the detent to engage the pump.http://i49.tinypic.com/11v4n46.jpg

Charlie1012000
08-31-2012, 02:16 AM
Pm. sent. You have there an aftermarket (Duffy) breather, original there's just a thin metal valve with 4 wings in a seat recession in the housing, and it is working well in most cases. Sealing to the cover, original it should be at most a very thin paper gasket or just liquid gasket sealer as the valve can stick in the seat otherwise. And I have to warn others against using a valve plate with a hole in the middle, that type of valve plate is only for parade riding purpouse.

As you are going to travel for long distances at high speed, that aftermarket breather with a larger capacity you have is better. There's a couple of others out on the market as well but that's the only with original appearence. I have'nt had a Duffy breather in my hands, but am almost certain it is constructed without a spring, and works only with crankcase pressure.

That was relly impressive light, I got to get one of those for my spot! The girl named Craig is starting to look like a bike now, so much work and the only thing wrong with her was the tank and a spring leaf!

When you start up it is very important to bleed the oil line at the oil pump little fillister screw just under the oil line fitting.

Charlie1012000
08-31-2012, 02:46 AM
The knob is pressed on the shaft and the knob throat is pressed or crimped in a groove in the shaft. A bit tricky to repair without a press and tool for it. I don''t think peening at the edge, trying to crimp it back will be sufficient as the shaft press fit is lost. One way would be to drill a small hole from the side, half way in the knob and shaft, and hammer in a slightly shorter piece of pin in the hole and peen over some material to lock the pin in place. Threading small dimensions is risky and will be more visible. Another way would be brazing it but it destroys the patina and it can be done later if the pin stuff doesn't work.
At the leather cups, the small threaded part brakes off easily beacuse the cups are secured with a locknut, and the material stretches and breaks. Thread for a screw is possible but again risk of breaking the tap with such small dimensions.

GreasySideUp
08-31-2012, 02:25 PM
http://i50.tinypic.com/1ly53.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/10prh9t.jpg

Before and after of the axle. MBM machinists are magicians! I wish I had those skills.

I am stuck on this front brake drum. It seems much too big to fit with the new pads. I have it adjusted as small as possible but I cannot get the backing plate to fit with the shoes inside. What is the trick here? I've tried to torque it down with the axle nut but it slips sideways. I am at a loss here for now.

http://i47.tinypic.com/25usn47.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/14wyc2e.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/107vs08.jpg

Charlie1012000
08-31-2012, 02:28 PM
Strange with the exhaust valve (stopper) lever in the middle of its range. Is the lever mounted right? When the lever is at its rearward and resting position, a play should be felt before the cam starts to lift the valve.

Charlie1012000
08-31-2012, 02:34 PM
Ouch! If you could sweettalk the MBM guys to set the assembled plate up in a big lathe and either grind or slow turn the shoes to fit?
I can't get that vendors send parts that doesn't fit, or at least instructions how to fit properly!!

GreasySideUp
08-31-2012, 02:38 PM
http://i48.tinypic.com/333vaxw.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/wgyzh4.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2ltnjvq.jpg

Tough to tell from the pics but it looks like the pads stick out just a hair past the plate.

Up side down? Backwards?

I am baffled.

Charlie1012000
08-31-2012, 02:48 PM
The pads are too thick. If not the MBM guys can do it maybe you can set the assembly up on a turning axle and try to grind them down with an fixed angle grinder, setup so you can turn the axle and slide it? But the plate needs to be set up centered and perpendicular. The backing plate center hole is often worn oval.
Annoying setback with so little time left but it's not terminal, riding with a poor front brake has been done before.

Charlie1012000
08-31-2012, 03:17 PM
At the inside of the backing plate, you have a thick layer of excess grease behind the deflector, that compartment needs absolute to be cleaned out or it is a risk that grease ruins the pads. That happend when the previous owner pumped the hub full of grease, the felt sealing can't hold it back and the overspill ends up there. There is also a drainage hole at the underside that needs to be open.

GreasySideUp
08-31-2012, 03:29 PM
I just talked to the guys at Midas and they said to take some sand paper on a block and sand it down. It seems a waste to get rid of that much new material but that will probably be my option if there are no others. This has taken my whole afternoon! I was expecting to be fired up by now.

Nothing is easy.

Charlie1012000
08-31-2012, 03:31 PM
Sanding will take ages but it will work. Use the most coarse paper you've got. To fine tune the arc it's doable to glue a strip of sandpaper at the drum inside.

GreasySideUp
08-31-2012, 09:30 PM
http://i49.tinypic.com/2gv25vn.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/11jyaub.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/29kqv69.jpg

I spoke with Randy Walker who was out in Iowa. He said he thinks the factory specs are wrong on the thickness. He said to grind down the shoes a little as well as sanding so there is still some meat left on the bone. Even with the sanding he said he has never had to send pads out again and a few people have 6000 miles and they are still going strong. It took a little of both to get them to fit. I would have sunk the rivets a little deeper with a flush countersink had I known all this was going to happen. I did go back and replace a few of the looser rivets just to make everything extra snug. You can see on the second pic the flat part that hits the cam is a tad thinner. There is still plenty of meat left for braking and it left more pad on the shoes as well.

This killed the entire day unfortunately so no firing up tonight but the front brake feels like it really grabs with very little movement on the lever. Brakes for a ride like this are probably a good thing to put a little extra time into. I'm done for the night.
http://i48.tinypic.com/30sewcy.jpg

Randy did say there is another 101 barn find that they just got running. It hadn't moved for 50 years and it fired up with just a little tinkering.

You'll never wear out a 101 Scout!

GreasySideUp
09-01-2012, 09:47 PM
Correction. I will wear out a 101 scout. It is always going so well until it isn't. Guys talked about the pain that is the chain guard but I mistakenly never asked for specifics. For others that are eventually going to build, keep the exhaust off, put the chain guard on but don't bolt it down, put the exhaust on, bolt the chain guard on. That wasted another 45 minutes today but that is not the big problem.

I started to screw the oil line in and the bung let loose inside the tank. We did not do anything with this one because it felt OK. Mr Evans is out of town on vacation in Ireland and it is Sunday of a long weekend so no local shops are open. I think Trey is out of town from Oceana cycles.

I've got to do some thinking while I sleep tonight. I have to learn to weld. That is my project for this year after the cannonball.

My thought is to weld a new bung completely over the old one from the outside similar to a brand new chopper tank. Then there is the question of where to get a bung. The other thought is to completely seal it up and run the line off the front line where the hand pump is. It sounds like a lot of people never use that hand pump but we are riding in the mountains where not a lot of people normally ride.

What do Harley's use for their gas petcock? Is that welded in or sealed? There may be enough room to maneuver one of those inside the tank.

I'll figure it out but I'm open to suggestions.

Charlie1012000
09-01-2012, 10:37 PM
Take the bung out of the tank, best is to plate the bung head with solder. Clean the oil tank out the best you can with some solvent, last with some thinner and plate a 5-6mm or 3/8"-1/4" ring of solder around the hole.

Don't use brake cleaner, it produces a very very toxic nerve gas when heated, that shuts down the body in an instance. Not always deadly but with terminal damage. I don't know if the formula has changed, but I don't take that chance.

Fit a long bolt through or thread a long wooden screw in the outlet of the bung so you can hold it with a plier (or let it hang) but long enough (10-12cm or 4-5") so you can heat on it with a propane flame above the plier. Dab a liberal amount of acid inside around the hole in the tank. Twist a bit of solder wire around the bung one ot two turns, depending on the thickness, but it doesn't take much. Dab it with acid and put it in the tank.
Use a tank paint heat shield around the bung, make a hole in a piece of sheet aluminium, have a helper holding it a bit from the surface with a plier.

With the tank right side up and bung hanging down, heat only on the bolt until it's glowing, heat will transpire to the bung and tank and solder it in place. It takes a good while until the solder have melted and solidified, and solder runs can be blown away with compressor air. Water spray can also be used to cool it down. When that's done and cold you can turn the tank upside down and with a soldering iron, carefully fortify the seam with more solder until you have a nice radius with solder. Easier done if the tank is plated with a ring of solder around the hole.

You can use the same tecnique when desolder and solder the tank screw bungs if they would brake loose, in rare occations without additional solder, just add acid. Battery acid from the battery in a pinch. With tank sealer it can be troublesome but soldering this way it shouldn't affect that big area around the bungs inside.

The problem with tin solder is that it crystallises and become brittle with age, but remelting restores the integrity.

Acid can be cleaned with water, and/or baking soda and/or a household cleaning agent containing ammonia.

Charlie1012000
09-02-2012, 02:31 PM
The fiber headgaskets that is floating around on the market are inferior and won't hold up. (that's my opinion) Try to get sheets of copper to make your own or at least take with you. It can be found perhaps at a tin metal roof tilers (I am working in that craft but I don't know if that's the English tradename for it) Many churches have copper roofing, at least in Sweden where I live. Maybe the church attendant can point you to a craftsman or shop. Sheets come in soft, semi hard and hard. Roof quality is of soft quality and could be used as is, but anneal the gasket before use doesn't hurt.

Anneal is done by heating the copper to glowing red and then chilled either in air or in water. Then brush off the scaling if there is any, but it hasn't have to be shining. Copper gaskets can be reused multiple times but in general should be annealed before reuse. Aluminium sheet would work but it's not common with soft enough quality. Thinner is better than thicker in that case and alu can't be annealed as copper.
I have heard third hand roumours about motors doing fine without headgaskets, just a thin layer of common bathroom clear silicone in between. I think it sounds dangerous considering the cutting force of the combustion flame visible in the pic, but I might try it to make it home.

The picture is from Lars endeveour on the Bonneville saltflats with his methanol fueled supercharged 741 engine in a 101 frame. The headgaskets are subjected to very dire straits used in that kind of engines, but I have blown 3 fiber gaskets in newly surfaced 45ci cylinders with iron heads, maybe I've been neglecting the retorque regime, but I have heard of others that have blown those headgaskets. I don't trust them and reuse ancient old battered fiber gaskets laminated with a thin foil of copper, and solid copper gaskets made of roofing copper.

t-jacobs
09-02-2012, 07:08 PM
Greasysideup,

With all you have taken on to get this bike ready I dont know how you find the time to keep this thread going. I give you an A for effort.

Buzz_Kanter
09-02-2012, 07:29 PM
Will we see you and this Indian in Newburgh this week?

Charlie1012000
09-02-2012, 08:34 PM
It's easy to despair with setbacks like that just now, but there's many hours left, and many good things will happen. Its doable.

GreasySideUp
09-02-2012, 09:37 PM
"Buzz_Kanter
Will we see you and this Indian in Newburgh this week?"

"Charlie1012000
It's easy to despair with setbacks like that just now, but there's many hours left, and many good things will happen. Its doable."


Where's the faith fellas?

The trouble started with trying to find a mirror so I could see what the heck was going on inside that tank. 3 stores and no one sold a mirror small enough so I had to cut one down. The issue is the hand pump tube right in the middle of what I needed to see.

http://i45.tinypic.com/54shv4.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/5bs3lg.jpg

That little bung cost me a full day of work. There was no solder to speak of on the inside of the tank. It had been repaired before with some soft solder on the outside, nowhere near enough to hold it. The funny thing was, if you got it in just the right spot it would hold but turn it a bit and it would leak. This did turn out to be a blessing in disguise though. When I was cleaning the tank out, I filled it up with soapy water and it would not drain. Looking inside, the oil port was completely clogged with gunk that had come loose. That is the blob of stuff next to the bung. If that had happened on the ride my motor would have chewed itself up. Without the leak, I never would have known that stuff was in there, because I didn't have a mirror because they were all to big and not worth the time to cut down.

A blessing in disguise.

To fix it I did exactly what Charlie said, almost. The first time it was exactly as Charlie said but my old man's hands were getting hotter than the bung. So we inverted it and took a lesson from Mr Evans' shop.
http://i47.tinypic.com/301n681.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/s16ucz.jpg

I made a rig with some duct tape, a tin can, an old shirt, bungee cords, vice grips and a ladder, wrapped the bung on the inside with solder and heated it from the outside. Presto tanko - no leaks. I soaked the shirt in water to try and save some paint. I could not get the bolt to transfer enough heat so eventually I just applied heat directly to the bung. The solder came right through with no need to solder from the outside.
http://i46.tinypic.com/xo0b51.jpg

GreasySideUp
09-02-2012, 09:39 PM
Double post

GreasySideUp
09-02-2012, 10:05 PM
My old man showed up yesterday and has been a ton of help. He is going to ride up to Newburgh with me and then head back to Atlanta.
http://i50.tinypic.com/immknb.jpg

I put him to work on the saddle bags. They needed to be put back together with some rivets. I found some more used ones at the Harley shop so I can run dual sets of bags. Dad puts 20k a year on his bike, he brought me some of his gear to borrow as well. A tank bag, tool kit, rain gear and some other goodies. This is his first time monkeying with this old stuff, I may have him looking for projects when he gets back home for the next Cannonball!

The chain was too long - I needed a 530 chain with 104 links. I'm not sure if this is a stock sprocket set or not.

http://i50.tinypic.com/653goh.jpg

Marked the link with duct tape before grinding so I wouldn't get lost.

http://i46.tinypic.com/flg0ph.jpg

Knocked a link out and I'm all set. How much play do I want in the chain?

http://i47.tinypic.com/39buv.jpg
plumbed the lines - I went with rubber on the fuel line and copper for the oil due to the proximity to the cylinders. I have rubber hose to bring. If these fail I can clip them and switch over pretty easily.

Filled everything and there are no leaks at all. She is tight. Bled the oil from the engine and filled the tranny. My tranny drain plug is rounded off and I needed vise grips to unscrew it. What size plug fits there and do they sell them at local stores or is it a special thread?

Lastly - Wait for it - she fired up. 3 kicks and she purred. It was raining here so no ride tonight but I'll hopefully get some shakedown miles on her tomorrow. I need to adjust the front fender and put the grips back on and then start packing.

It felt good to take The Girl named Crag off the lift and put her back on the side stand.

http://i45.tinypic.com/4tvhh5.jpg Now I need to figure out how to pack all those tools. I used everything you see on the floor and in that bin. There is a bunch of stuff on my bench as well. The two bottles of locktite are empty and holding the bike together.

Charlie, for the head gaskets I ordered a set of copper gaskets as a spare. How often are you checking the head bolts? I torqued on all of them and they felt good.

GreasySideUp
09-02-2012, 10:09 PM
Double Post

Charlie1012000
09-03-2012, 02:11 AM
Original gearing is 36/21=1,71 will be comfortable in 55-65mph topping out in 75 or so. 36/22=1.63 good for flatland highways, and strokers pull that well.
With 40 rear you need 23 front to get 1.73 and 40/24=1.66 but that will be tight if possible at chainguard front.
A hardtail needs less chain play than a sprung frame but I have it about 2 fingers thick where tightest.

Drain screws is 3/8-27tpi I don't know if that is ordinary pipe thread and I think the plugs are somewhat conical. There are square head screws available.

Doug Wothke just fried a piston on his bike since 15 years, he hadn't travelled with it before, only short trips and I think sustained highway speeds did it.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822028
Based on that maybe you should open up the pump 1 turn before going there and check crank case oil level at each intersection until you know. 1/2 turns increment at the pump should be allright, maybe 1/4 when you reduce.
Doug is running 40/20 gearing, way too high that would give 3110 revs/min in 50 mph whilst 36/21 would mean 2660 r/min.

I don't check headbolts that often especially with the old fiber gaskets I use, torquing adds the risk of stripping threads. I feel at them on occation but not neccessarily braking them loose.
The connections should be hard soldered in the best of cases and to avoid the copper line to crack, mounted with no tension at all. Lines must fit so well that you have to mount both connections at the same time.
You realize it is a blessing sometimes to have an newly painted restored bike, you can always patch up the paint. My "unrestored" is torture to preserve the brittle paint and I have to be twice as careful to avoid scratches and dents.

Charlie1012000
09-03-2012, 04:04 AM
Tools, The places what I remember right now is hard to get to and where special tools is needed is carb manifold tool, (exhaust nut spanner for std cyl) a couple of cylinder base nuts ring spanners bent different. Socket for head bolts and socket for spark plugs in your case. 2 thin spanners for valve adjustments.

Socket for magneto drive gear bolt or nut, it might need thinning on the OD, and special small spanners for magneto breakers.

Square face grinded socket for crank pinion gear screw, it's left hand thread, thin, weak and slips easy with a ordinary rounded socket.
Puller for crank pinion gear (Tool for installing the gear is warmly recommended) and puller for crank transm.gear. Puller for clutch hub.

Ordinary socket and extender for rear gearbox bolt and front engine through bolt makes the work easier.

1" socket for crank and gearbox shaft nuts. Special open spanner for clutch cage inner nut inside gearbox.

Special tool or punch for gearbox bearing retainer nut on chain side. Special tool, hard head screwdriver or square punch for fastening rear sprocket.

Tire changing tools. Provision to support the front in case of puncture. Tire pump or 10 cartridges of compressed air. Don't pump the tire, either front or especially the rear until it is in place! It's murder to get in place on your own if it is pumped. Oh, I forgot you have a hinge on the rear mudguard, that's almost cheating!

Buzz_Kanter
09-03-2012, 07:14 AM
Look forward to meeting you and hearing that old girl go down the road with us in Newburgh. I picked up British Cannonballer Ian Patton and his 101 Scout at JFK airport Friday and trucked him and the bike up to Georeg Yarocki's place.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/282655_2138046964512_8337514_n.jpg
While there I picked up my 1931 101 Scout that has been at George's way too long. I love the 101s. This is an old photo of my 101. It now has the correct lights and horn.

GreasySideUp
09-03-2012, 05:55 PM
Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9KVz4G7yB4&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Need more help. The clutch was working fine so I messed with it. I was trying to get it to engage earlier. Now it wont disengage. Also what is that squeak? I think breather but I'm not sure.

Mr. Big
09-03-2012, 06:19 PM
My Pan makes the exact same squeak when you shut it off. We were thinkin' it might be the gen. Be curious if others have heard this squeaker.......

GreasySideUp
09-03-2012, 06:24 PM
Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcUl4LbpL64&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Pulled the plugs. Still squeaking. I think the clutch is the nut on the pedal loose. It backs off every time I push it in.

GreasySideUp
09-03-2012, 06:29 PM
It is the breather.

Charlie1012000
09-03-2012, 06:31 PM
I think A girl named Craig is laughing at you! The breather is easy to take off and leave off to check if it's that. The clutch is more troublesome, I don't know exactly what's done apart from changing plates and I don't know what's adjusted so it's hard to tell, but it doesn't work. It's so simple mechanism in there so it's difficult to tell what's going wrong, but something hooked up if it won't disengage.

If it won't disengage and the pedal is frosen or the clutch is bottoming out, don't press on the pedal, a tremendous force is transmitted to the aluminium case cover that the center can sink or collapse. Many bikes that have been tipped on its side can have had the center pushed in and a too small clutch range have developed. A fresh cover has no depression between high points on top of the bulge.

If it would be the breather that makes noice I have some ideas but would need some pics of the parts involved.

Charlie1012000
09-03-2012, 06:55 PM
A magneto has safety gaps inside, that the spark is bolting through, in order to protect the tiny hi tension coil wires from shorting if the high tension leads or plugs would break, but it's safer if the plugs is in the them boots and grounded when kicking through.

wilko
09-03-2012, 07:14 PM
head to barrel leak

GreasySideUp
09-03-2012, 08:48 PM
It is definitely the breather. When I pull it off the sound completely disappears. The clutch is the nut on the pedal. When I push the clutch in, that nut backs out every time it is released. I'm going to have to find a locknut for that tomorrow morning. Do you know the size of that nut by chance?

On the clutch, this new clutch grabs. I stalled a dozen times today riding around the block. There is almost no play between fully engaged and disengaged. I have maybe 1/4 inch sweet spot where the clutch slips. That combined with the play in the throttle makes it extremely difficult to drive from a standing start. The old clutch seemed much easier from what I remember a month ago but I probably only started from a dead stop 3-4 times. I put all the springs in this one, the other had 4 missing. I'm thinking of pulling those springs tomorrow morning before the trip if there are no other adjustments I can do.

http://i46.tinypic.com/v3eogm.jpg

Dad built a box for the luggage rack to hold some gas cans and oil. I'm probably going to fill a 2.5 gallon jug with oil and fill up along the way at the few harley shops we stop at.
http://i49.tinypic.com/rh0ahc.jpg

I built a kicker out of a popsicle kicker and a 20MM shell. I've been wanting to do this for years.
http://i50.tinypic.com/6z6jwn.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2gt5f5s.jpg

The whitewalls cleaned up nicely.
http://i50.tinypic.com/opzjab.jpg

The front brake is dragging just a bit. If that doesn't go away by NJ, I may have to pull the front wheel and do a little more sanding. I blew two of the LED lights. I wonder if the voltage was a little much. That was a bummer, those things worked great - and they were expensive. The motor purred today. A little more to do tomorrow morning and we are out of here.

I'll be camping most of the trip so my internet will probably be more intermittent but I'll try and post updates when I can.

Charlie, It's not too late to fly out here and join me. I'll split the legs with you on the bike.

Let me know what my options are for the clutch, I'd hate to pull it if I don't need to.

Charlie1012000
09-03-2012, 09:57 PM
The nut is 1/2"-24Tpi and originally a castle nut with a split-pin to lock it.
Let the girl named Craig laugh best she can. You'll see later it'll be a sigh of release when you get off of her.:D

The clutch might want some run-in, and there's not many options if you can't mount the lever further back (I touched that in reply#100) you do as you think and take off some springs, it won't hurt. There's the option of take out one of the steel plates, that relesase some of the spring tension and with less friction it'll slip smoother, but go with the springs first. And you haven't started to chase oil leaks yet:D

That looks like a really good crafted box, it'll hold falling off!
It's like any other trip, the routine will smooth out the further you get on the CB and you toss some things and add some more.

That is some powerful shell that. Looking good!

Thanks a lot for the generous offer to ride with you! Much obliged! If I had a chance I would be there I'll tell you!

Charlie1012000
09-03-2012, 10:18 PM
Hm...that generator is putting out too high voltage for the leds, that's a shame it blew your lights! It can happen with ordinary bulbs also. I suppose you have the original cut out behind the end cover. The voltage at each of the bulbs can be corrected with a simple electronic component that stabilize and channel excessive voltage to ground wired at the bulb.(can't remember the name or was it zenerdiod?) but it'll take time to find.

I can't recognize the end cap of your generator, it's not the original Splitdorf so I can't advise on adjustments!

With the original generator it is a 3 brush generator that might need turned down at the brush. The voltage is more difficult to adjust but the current is easier. Just loosen the 2 screws clamping the brush holder and turn it anticlockwise to lessen and clockwise to rise amperage output.

The charging system, regardless, is supposed to put out about I guess 1A at elevated revulotions of the engine, to keep the battery charged (=trickle charge) depending on what the battery size is and about 1,5A if position lights will be on at all times and it needs adjusted higher if the headlight needs to be on. That amount determined by if the battery is emptied. Use a quality meter in line with the generator, not the bike meter.

Charlie1012000
09-03-2012, 11:23 PM
With led bulbs you might not need the generator at all! With a fresh battery the lights can run all day! It's not good to have the gen. idle and if you can't hook off the belt, the field coil needs to be connected to ground. Bring a trickle charger instead and * the gen!

vlscout
09-04-2012, 05:11 AM
Hi Charlie
That Generator looks correct for the 101 and is Type DU7 the end cover is different to DU5 style that has a centrifical cutout! the DU7 has a elecro mechanical cutout under the lid
My thoughts with the LEDs Blowing would be the battery being out of circuit ,causing the voltage to rise beyond normal range,
regards Phil

Charlie1012000
09-04-2012, 03:26 PM
You're right vlscout! I was tired and weary not thinking through and didn't check up more than the last picture.

I hope Greasy is on the way now...I wish him luck. And it takes a lot more than good luck to coast these bikes across. It's the time pressure that can take him down, it's no deal to go across country with enough time, but time shortage makes for poor compromises and bad desicions.

Charlie1012000
09-04-2012, 03:26 PM
Double posts.

GreasySideUp
09-04-2012, 08:29 PM
Well..... I am still at home.

I started the day by removing 4 clutch springs. That took until 9AM. It took a day previously, now I'm down to 2 hours. We mounted the box and found that the saddle bag was resting on the pipe so I sent dad to get some wrap for the exhaust. I loaded all the gear and fired it up and the clutch pedal was engaging again so I had dad look for another castle nut while he was out. While I was working on the clutch, the bike almost tipped over - the sidestand was loose enough to spin on the frame and couldn't support the weight. I got that all tightened up, fixed the pedal with some washers, dad wrapped the pipe and we were off at around noon. Still plenty of time. I was planning on a 10:00 start so a two hour delay was right on track.

Riding out of the driveway was a disaster. The bike was completely out of control. I rode around the block and came right back to the house. I had 2.5 gallons of gas and about 3 gallons of oil in the box, plus tools and camping gear. I've seen bikes packed like this all the time - I think the key difference is where it sits on the axle. It is no more weight than a passenger but with the short frame, most of that weight was sitting behind the rear axle. The bike was trying to wheelie on it's own. I am 6'4 so we had the box back a bit for me to lean on during the ride. Without any regard, it was too far back. I unloaded all the gear and we moved the box forward. I think my plan to cart all my own oil is not going to work. Hopefully someone will have some space in the back of a van for a few quarts. I'm going to lower the gas from 2.5 gallons to 1 gallon and move some of the tools to the front.

http://i49.tinypic.com/34tbe36.jpg

By this time it was about 1:30, so we made the call to slip a day and just ride around town since I still haven't had the bike out yet. The clutch is much better. I only stalled twice - once in traffic and made a bunch of people miss the light. No pressure to make the next light! At speed, the bike got up to 54MPH and hit a wall. It was popping a bit and then would decelerate. There was some black smoke my dad said so I think it's a bit rich. If I rolled off some throttle it would accelerate. It feels as if it is bogging. It also quit twice when coming to a stop.

I took the bike over to my new friend Indian John's place, a local Indian guru I just learned about. We fired it up, he says the idle sounds good and gave me some tips on tuning the carb but he believes the advance is not right. The engine slows down when it is advanced when it should be speeding up. It may be over advancing. Bottom line, I'm going to send a shout out to the other Indian owners at the ball and see if their bikes are sorted enough to take a quick ride on mine and point me in the right direction. I feel like it is cheating, but the new plan is to trailer the bike up to New York tomorrow, and try and final sort the bike there. Get someone to ride it and tell me exactly what is going on and hear what the motor does with the adjustments.

So close.... Still pressing forward though. Time is definitely the enemy.

GreasySideUp
09-04-2012, 08:32 PM
Double post. Is the forum acting up or am I losing my mind?

Charlie1012000
09-04-2012, 08:57 PM
One way to check the advance would be bending a piece of wire to an L where the foot is (X) long and stick it in the plug hole. When the piston touches the wire, the breaker should open if the mag lever is in full advance. In the books there is some contradicting info. One book says 7/16 as standard setting, one says 5/16-3/8 ign. advance as standard and 9/16-5/8 ign. advance as racing settings. Some books says 3/8 as standard and 5/8 for the Bonneville Scout. On the Bosch the breaker ring is adjustable, so I set my engine with too much advance and adjust the ring to where the motor pulls best, therefore I don't know the exact advance setting in my engine.
Sorry I didn't mentioned this tip earlier, but I thought your ign. was fine. I'll edit an earlier post to include a tip on how to check the existing setting.

Friday
09-04-2012, 09:41 PM
hi all,
what kind of engine is this ?
42 heads ,cylinders,valves,threaded valve cover guides,push rods.....
is it possible the cam gears have SS lobes on the shafts to suit top end?
should it be treated as a SS and not a 101 scout as far as timing goes?
(just a thought)

Ive been watching this thread every day to see progress = great stuff and good infomation flying around and great adventure ,can see why they had side cars back then.
All the best for the trip

Charlie1012000
09-04-2012, 11:07 PM
You're right but many things determine adv.setting. not only the cams. (or std.lifters or Bonn.lifters) gas quality among other, even the weather and elevation makes it impossible to say a specific measure with authority. It should be tested on each motor and hearing and sensible right wrist is a neccessary tool to fine tune it on an Indian.
Depending on the lever range on the Splitdorf I'd probably go from a base of 11,1mm or 7/16" and adjust the lever range from that if I can get enough retard for easy starting.
I also enjoy this adventure!

Charlie1012000
09-05-2012, 04:06 PM
Some links for entertaining.
http://cannonballandthebeast.wildapricot.org/
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822028
http://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=2e1b4de3265776584
http://www.vintagebmw.org/v7/cannonball_blog
http://www.motorcyclecannonball.com/
http://weather.weatherbug.com/NY/Newburgh-weather/weather-cams/local-cams.html?zcode=z6286&lang_id=sv-SE&camera_id=-1

GreasySideUp
09-05-2012, 09:48 PM
Made it to Newburgh. A few other 101 owners met me with open arms, we are going to start working on the bike at 8am tomorrow after breakfast.

It is amazing to see all these old bikes in one place. I'll try and get some pics up tomorrow, but talking to the guys it looks like this actually may work out.

The community so far is outstanding. I've met several people that have offered use of their tools. This is going to be a fantastic educational opportunity to watch some real time problem solving. I'm here with open ears to learn as much as I can over the next few weeks. It is an amazing opportunity to say the least.

Marcin just cleared customs and should be here tomorrow mid morning. Jeff is going on the practice run. Ian has some odds and ends to clean up. Doug had some carbon in a valve and had to pull the head again and I think Steve is good to go.

Team 101 is ready to give the Harley's a run this year!

Charlie1012000
09-05-2012, 09:59 PM
:D:D Great news!

Charlie1012000
09-06-2012, 04:55 AM
Relating to cross continent travels with underpowered vehicle and underdog status,
I had to laugh seeing this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDOOT-T2gKo

I have followed Ed the postman on his incredible cross continent travel. And he's going at it again
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460631&page=192
and scrolling further down that page there is Doug Wothke (101 rider #88 in the CB) on the list with 2 of the most read adventures.

tomcat1
09-06-2012, 08:46 AM
this is Great. Looking forward to seeing you in Anamosa. :D

Fabe
09-06-2012, 09:00 AM
Best of luck to you Greasy.

HDpanman
09-06-2012, 09:16 AM
I wish you the best of luck. I'll be up later today and tommorow morning to watch the procession. T-Bone and I want to make a donation to you just in case you need a tow truck.

Mr. Big
09-06-2012, 10:02 AM
Tow truck number is BR-549. Good luck and be safe!

Pigpen
09-06-2012, 04:35 PM
Best of luck to you. I plan on hooking up with you guys in Yellowstone. Where will you be staying there?

Charlie1012000
09-06-2012, 04:50 PM
I think they are having lunch at Irma hotel, Cody and staying at the Yellowstone Lodge.
http://www.motorcyclecannonball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1

Bigincher
09-06-2012, 05:34 PM
Ah, the Irma Hotel...... what a great place...!! Spent a very memorable evening in the hotel bar once...! (well, maybe more than once.)
But here's a tip---- don't order buffalo steak after 11:00pm in the bar. I had the worse piece of shoe-leather that ever came off a grill there..!
But those margueritas, oh man..! That made up for it...!

Oh, and let's not forget the Winchester Museum just down the street a few blocks..... so much to see, so little time...!

Pigpen
09-06-2012, 07:38 PM
I spent 2 days in that museum!

Charlie1012000
09-06-2012, 09:29 PM
Ouch!!! I just read on Jeff Alperin's blog
"Dough Wothke and Josh Wilson both arrived late last night. Doug worked on his intake manifold leak and some other issues for most of the day. Josh Wilson's bike turned out to need major, all-day attention from Steve Rinker, Tim Raindle, and sometimes George Yarocki. The did the best they could with what they had to work with, but Josh still had problems as of 8:30 PM."
What the **** happend with the magneto???
Well, it's killing the gaist but not to dispair it's some 10 hours left and and as long as he can push it over the startline tomorrow it can be trailered to the next stop to buy some time.

Charlie1012000
09-06-2012, 11:49 PM
Greasy looking a bit ragged at the edges....hey, cheer up mate!
http://thevintagent.blogspot.se/

GreasySideUp
09-07-2012, 12:18 AM
Wow. 1252AM The race starts in 6 hours. Get up for it. The bike is on two feet again and running strong.

This is the most unbelievable community I've been a part of. We started out with a leisurely breakfast to figure out the plan and what the masters came up with was "Lets go fix your bike." It was an all hands on Craig event where I was more of a witness than anything else. Steve Rinker, his dad, my dad, Tim Raindle, Jeff Alperin, Ian, Doug and George Yarocki worked some magic in the morning, but every time we fixed something 2 other things broke. Simple job to time the bike until you take the cam gear out and the bushing comes with it.

http://i47.tinypic.com/1z4d0fa.jpg
Of course the idler bushing did the same thing so at 8:45 AM I went looking for a knurl.

There are some impressive rigs here but I was unable to find one so I knocked on the back door of Orange County Choppers.

http://i49.tinypic.com/1037w9d.jpg

John worked some absolute magic on those worn out bushings. Those guys have a shop!! And they dropped everything to help me out.

http://i50.tinypic.com/awcpaf.jpghttp://i45.tinypic.com/2uh94lx.jpg

When putting it all back together we noticed the one of the lifter rollers was flat and rubbing on the steel. Off to OCC again where Jim joined John and they machined a new hardened steel roller out of an old brake rotor, turned a steel bolt and peened it all back together. In the mean time Steve found a spare set so now we have a great spare.
http://i45.tinypic.com/67jyo0.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/mlpbnp.jpg
I went off to the rider meeting and Tim finished off the bike while I was inside. He worked non stop for about 10 hours. Literally non stop. One cup of coffee for lunch non stop. Unbelievable.

What an awesome group of guys. I skipped dinner to put some miles on in the parking lot and she ran like a scalded ape.

And then she didn't. One cylinder quit working. Good spark, good fuel but intermittent. We spent the next four hours trouble shooting, checking the mag, carb, float, valves, mag again, new plugs, switch the plugs ..... nothing. Marcin showed up and helped tremendously with the trouble shooting but eventually we decided to ride for a few miles on one cylinder to get credit for the start and it would buy another day to fix her up. Then David Shaw came out of no where from Morris Magneto and would not give up. I followed him around the bike doing the same trouble shooting and after a few hours, he finally tore into the mag. There it was - a stuck brush.

We fired up around midnight and she sounded great. I owe a huge debt of gratitude to these guys and a host of others that I did not mention. People I have never met were lending a hand, it was humbling. Team 24 is still rebuilding a motor. Much longer night for them than me and they still made time to help me out with tools and air.

Santa Claus (HDPanman and TBone?) came to visit me today as well - If you need a pool buy from B and B! http://www.bbpoolandspa.com

Thanks for all the support fellas, I'll sleep when I'm dead but a few hours right now probably won't hurt. Stop by and see me on the road and feel free to hang out in the pits with us.

HDpanman
09-07-2012, 03:08 PM
for any that may be interested Greasy pulled into the parking lot at about 7:15 smoking and running like sh!t and parked it at the entrance. However, by the time he left at about 915 am after a bit of advice from my P.A.L.S. at Morris Magneto and help from others he left sounding better than more than a few of the other bikes. It was a hot, humid 80 degrees plus at 9am. I have to say it was one of the most exciting experiences I have had in my old motorcycle life that I have seen to see these men with more balls than brains go off on this trip. I sure wish I was with them cause I got no brains. God Speed.

Charlie1012000
09-07-2012, 03:38 PM
Thunderstorm alerts in the Cleveland area.

Charlie1012000
09-07-2012, 04:20 PM
double posts

Charlie1012000
09-07-2012, 05:10 PM
Doug arrived in Wellsboro about 16.22. I hope the Indian posse ganged up.
http://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=2e1b4de3265776584&showInfo=yes

tomcat1
09-07-2012, 05:18 PM
man I love these reports!

t-jacobs
09-07-2012, 05:35 PM
Go Greasy Go

Mr. Big
09-07-2012, 05:37 PM
Amazing. Shows up looking terminal and ends up makin' the first leg.

HDpanman
09-07-2012, 06:57 PM
Can't wear out an Indian Scout. If he made the first leg as it seems I'll lay money he will go all the way. Give me 20 to 1.

Charlie1012000
09-07-2012, 07:01 PM
Macin Vela needs a '40 cyl and piston. Anyone know of anything in the PA or OHIO area?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/332714961899/

Mr. Big
09-07-2012, 08:01 PM
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/prostock101/Greasy.jpg

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/prostock101/Greasy2.jpg

Anyone find the photobomb? :D

brianbbs67
09-07-2012, 08:33 PM
Ok, what's a photo bomb?

Charlie1012000
09-07-2012, 09:21 PM
Drama for Buzz, but he got to the finish. I guess he has some night oil to burn...
http://classic-harley.info/
Darryl seems fine with the BMW.
http://www.vintagebmw.org/v7/cannonball_blog

GreasySideUp
09-07-2012, 09:30 PM
What a day! No time to post right now, just got finished with new plug wires.

1 mile out of the gate 1 cylinder for the next 3 miles to the museum.

At breakfast, Decided to start on one cylinder, cross the start line and shut down so I could officially be in the race.

Dave and wall of death team come up with a condenser and wedge it in series on the mag.

Stall out after a mile and think its over.

Last one on the course and the chase vehicle stops to pick me up.

Turns out to be a bad plug.

Catch on fire at mile 60 and burn up all my pants and shorts.

Fire extinguisher bought by my dad late last night saves the day. ( saddle bag pleather not compatible with exhaust hilarious video to follow. )

Bungee burnt shorts to box and leave the others on the side of the road for posterity.

Indians are all over the place, ride most of the day with Rick on the 4 cylinder. That bike pulls on the hills!

Finish 214 miles, burn 2.5 quarts of oil and about 50 mpg at 40-45 mph.

A bunch of Pittsburgh guys help prep for tomorrow.

Life is good.

Charlie1012000
09-07-2012, 09:41 PM
The learning curve is steep in the beguinning, but you haven't do it all in one go, do you?:D

Charlie1012000
09-07-2012, 09:58 PM
"Five of the six 101 Scouts were successful today. Only Marcin Grela, from Poland, broke down. His oiler was probably not working so he overheated and seized a piston."
http://cannonballandthebeast.wildapricot.org/Default.aspx?pageId=977482

Charlie1012000
09-08-2012, 08:41 AM
Two hours in and Doug is motoring on in the rainforcast area, One good thing is Greasy got to work damn hard today to get his shorts on fire!

LowBikeMike
09-08-2012, 09:11 AM
Doug arrived in Wellsboro about 16.22. I hope the Indian posse ganged up.
http://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=2e1b4de3265776584&showInfo=yes

I wonder if he has to ride backwards the whole way or just the first couple of legs? LOL

Charlie1012000
09-08-2012, 09:14 AM
That's only to check how tha Harleys are doing....

hdliz
09-08-2012, 10:24 AM
Charlie, thank you so much for the constant updates... and the humor... (easy on the Harley riders ;))

I was hoping the official "Cannonball Run" website would do a little better. Nothing new on their site for almost a week now :(...

Rubone
09-08-2012, 10:37 AM
I was hoping the official "Cannonball Run" website would do a little better. Nothing new on their site for almost a week now ...
Bill wood of the AMCA has a running blog detailing the Cannonballers progress on the AMCA site. Our own Buzz barely made it to the first checkpoint after an engine seizure yesterday! and keep in mind that the "official website" guys are busy competing and coordinating the event. I don't think they have a dedicated PI officer!
Robbie

GreasySideUp
09-08-2012, 01:05 PM
Some where in Ohio. 220 miles down. 100 to go. Soaking wet but Craig is running great.

drewehe
09-08-2012, 03:34 PM
Wheels Thru Time has info and pictures
http://www.wheelsthroughtime.com/motorcycle-cannonball/

Charlie1012000
09-08-2012, 03:51 PM
Doug has stopped at a junction close to a small airport. 14.22. Still down at 15.31 spot time. I can't see where thay had lunch. Let's hope it is a energy bar lunch. Or maybe he's changing rear light, so the Harleys have something else to look at...

hdliz
09-08-2012, 04:06 PM
Thanks Robbie... didn't mean to sound curt... I was just looking for Stage 1 results and they were posted shortly after my post. I'm just a wee bit energized & enthusiastic.... sorry :o

I'm following every blog, FaceBook page, news reel, website, etc. I can find.... I'm consumed by this "Run". I'll try to tone it down guys.

Oh and..... Go Josh Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Charlie1012000
09-08-2012, 04:14 PM
In the saddle again at 15.51! Go Doug!
And also Josh of course!

tomcat1
09-08-2012, 04:18 PM
Go Doug!!!!

Charlie1012000
09-08-2012, 04:34 PM
Some news I found on Google News.
http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2012/09/vintage_motorcycles_on_the_can.html
http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=35&cntnt01origid=15&cntnt01returnid=97
http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2012/09/vintage_motorcycles_on_the_can.html
http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/local/communities/sturgis/motorcycle-cannonball-endurance-run-will-stop-in-sturgis/article_505ef01f-2065-518d-be9f-5675a091a5d4.html
http://globegazette.com/news/local/motorcycle-cannonball-will-stop-at-mason-city-harley-davidson/article_26967c2a-f05a-11e1-b8a3-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/industry-news/2012/08/15/cannonball-run-to-stop-at-national-motorcycle-museum
http://www.toledofreepress.com/2012/08/31/artist-revved-up-for-motorcycle-cannonball/

Charlie1012000
09-08-2012, 04:54 PM
10 min from the 2010 CB by Cycle World.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=07tduDhJhgg

Charlie1012000
09-08-2012, 05:21 PM
I got a file missing on my confuser, some CAB1 , so the Adobe reader doesn't work! I tried to uninstall and install but still no luck. Anyone have a .jpg of the day 1 results?

hdliz
09-08-2012, 06:50 PM
From what I've read in the last 20 minutes or so, all of the riders are not in yet. A big crash on I-90 that closed the interstate and re-routed traffic at 5:00. I realize they are probably past their "time slot" for arrival, but results didn't get posted for Stage 1 until today at 2pm.

Charlie1012000
09-08-2012, 07:09 PM
Doug was held up for 1 hour. 17.21 until 18.21 but now it is full speed ahead.

hdliz
09-08-2012, 07:24 PM
Doug had magneto problems... got picked up by sweep... and they got caught in traffic jam.

Charlie1012000
09-08-2012, 07:38 PM
Ah, they where probably late to the last checkpoint anyway, so sweep or ride, same difference anyhow. Better to get to the dinner ASAP than fix it.

GreasySideUp
09-08-2012, 10:02 PM
Another day in the books! On time every time!

The Girl named Craig performed much better than I did today. About a mile out of town this morning was the first hill and about half way up she started to burp. "This can't be happening!" A downshift to 2nd and a smack on the carb got her going, I think the float was a little stuck. After that she ran flawless for the rest of the day.

We hit rain about 40 miles in and it did not let up until Ohio. Probably a little better than 200 miles were in the rain. The Pittsburg crew I met on the street last night suggested putting silicone around the mag when I was changing the wires. I don't know if it helped or not but it certainly didn't hurt.

Steve Rinker blew a head gasket, he thought initially it was a piston since he just dialed down his oil pump so we got lucky and he is back on the road for tomorrow. I'm not sure about Ian and it sounds like you all know more about Doug than I do. I do know that the chase vehicle is still not back so it is going to be tough to work on the bikes this late.

I had some more help this evening from some local Indian owners getting the bike ready for tomorrow. If any of you meet me on the road and are interested in turning a wrench, let me know and I'll put you on some odd jobs. Those odd jobs tonight were simply making sure everything was tight, changing the Engine oil and topping off the tranny. I was done by 7:30 and thought there was surely something else to do with the way the last few weeks were going but Craig was as ready as she could be.

Steve got his bike back together, went for a test ride and had a flat tire. Better now than tomorrow morning. Kelly in the #24 team got the JD fired up this evening. They have had 2 different motors, in and out, 4-5 times. They have been working non stop. Hopefully he is on the road tomorrow.

Rick with the Henderson found he was shedding parts on day one and was still working at 10pm.

Jeff's bike ran like a top although his map case got wet and trashed the map inside. That happened to several people, I ended up dragging a few bikes with me. People made fun of my simple clear plastic map holder but it is proving to be awesome. It takes 3 minutes to load and works flawlessly. KISS. The $200 ACER Tourmaps are taking 45 minutes to load with 16 pages on the schedule tomorrow.

We have another long day tomorrow and the chase vehicle is only giving us a 15 minute head start so we make the ferry. There will be no time to fix anything that goes wrong. Knock on wood, Craig will still hold strong.

If anyone finds a GoPro camera on I90 outside Cleveland, it is mine. Note - GoPro cannot stand up to the vibration of the powerful Indian motor! The mount snapped right off.

All pics from yesterday. The rain would have destroyed my camera today.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2zrdo5v.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2yn0zdw.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/24zw5xx.jpg

hdliz
09-08-2012, 10:14 PM
Doug got his bike running so hopefully he won't have to do much wrenching tonight...

His ride report:
Rider #88 Doug Wothke reported from the road, "First 100 miles was rain. Bike stopped running, and when I couldnt fix it with my hammer, I knew it was an electrical problem. Inside of the magneto had water, so I dried it out along the road, in the rain.(not an easy feat!) I got it going, and later I stopped for gas, & it wouldnt start. I got it goin about an hour later, & didnt shut it off. Gassed it up running, filled the oil running, etc. No food today, as I was running late. Finally I thought I had it whopped, but saw a guy with a broke Harley, so stopped to help, & spent some time there. Bike wouldnt start again. Finally got it going, & made it to Cleveland, where the highway was shut down because of a wreck. I fought the traffic for an hour before the bike said "enough" and died. .....So I had to catch a ride to Sandusky"

Charlie1012000
09-08-2012, 10:21 PM
What have you done to the girl, she's looking all perky and stareyed? I bet she is whistling and there she is blowing some smokerings on top of it all! She burnt your pants, what's that supposed to mean? Good report and following Doug having all the problem I didn't think you where ahead of the possy today! Full points so far!

hdliz
09-09-2012, 03:31 AM
Charlie, if you're still having problems with your 'confuser' :) & PDF files try this link for the Stage results: (bottom of article)

http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=36&cntnt01returnid=97

Charlie1012000
09-09-2012, 03:34 AM
OK. there it is. Thank you!

HDpanman
09-09-2012, 03:43 AM
Looks like that tow donation won't be needed. Sure hope it doesn't and he uses it for a few shots and a good steak in San Fransisco at the end. After seeing him and the other 101s leave on friday a few of my P.A.L.s rode with me back to my place and we got the kids 101 running great in about 5 mins. Thanks George. Run Josh run.

Charlie1012000
09-09-2012, 03:47 AM
We need picture proof of that 101!

Charlie1012000
09-09-2012, 04:30 AM
Marcin Grela must have fried the engine completely as he didn't start yesterday. A scored piston is usually possible to get working. Hope he got it fixed until today.
It must be a few riders that is pretty disappointed.
I can't get the NS, No score deal for 3 of the riders, what's up with that?

HDpanman
09-09-2012, 05:13 AM
If I could figure out how to take the pics, get them off the camera onto the computer and then on here I would. Soon I will do just that because I have a few questions on the oiling and some others but that will be started on another thread.

Charlie1012000
09-09-2012, 05:49 AM
I don't think Greasy mind you asking a Indian related question, while we are waiting on updates.

HDpanman
09-09-2012, 05:51 AM
I started the thread on the 101 section.

GreasySideUp
09-09-2012, 03:15 PM
Made the ferry in Michigan! A bunch of us made a wrong turn, hopefully others will figure it out too and get here soon.

Charlie1012000
09-09-2012, 03:18 PM
What a relief Greasy! Hurrah!! Doug didn't get enough time to fix his waterlogged magneto, so he thought better safe than sorry and embarked the sweep truck.

tomcat1
09-09-2012, 04:12 PM
Great news ! I 'm here in Anamosa trying to figure out how to upload pic's from my iPad :D

brianbbs67
09-09-2012, 04:57 PM
Great news ! I 'm here in Anamosa trying to figure out how to upload pic's from my iPad :D
Get the photo bucket app from the App store, it's free

indianut
09-09-2012, 07:54 PM
Go Man GO!!!!

Charlie1012000
09-09-2012, 08:05 PM
They are at the HD museum now. It took some 3 hours to get over the pond. Or maybe the ferry was held up some.

GreasySideUp
09-09-2012, 11:11 PM
Riding on to the ferry and in to Milwaukee was amazing today. There were thousands lined up on the streets, we had a police escort, and Harley threw a phenominal dinner. They had a band and overall threw a spectacular event. They even gave some piston rings to Marcin do we have not left the parking lot yet and are going to try and get him up and going for tomorrow.

The front piston is destroyed but the back one looks pretty good. We'll see how far we get tonight and I'll post pictures when we get back to the room.

The ride went well today minus a bad batch of gas that had us all monkeying with our carbs. 320 miles at 50mph to make the ferry, it was an aggressive ride for Craig but we made it just fine.

There was an accident but word is that everything is ok.

Charlie1012000
09-10-2012, 04:10 AM
OK, Nothing to do with the bike, short stretch tomorrow and a sleep-in until 9! This is beguinning to look like a vacation!:rolleyes:

Pigpen
09-10-2012, 11:35 AM
How many of the participants are active on this forum and what are their numbers?

hdliz
09-10-2012, 12:59 PM
How many of the participants are active on this forum and what are their numbers?

Two that come to mind immediately.... GreasySideUp (Josh Wilson #89)... and our fearless leader, Buzz Kanter #15.

(there may be more?)

tomcat1
09-10-2012, 01:37 PM
Greasy, I'm here in anamosa and have my tool bag with, i'll look you up and see if you need anything

hdliz
09-10-2012, 04:19 PM
Good on ya tomcat.... keep up the good work.... and thanks for the diligent reporting.

BigLew55
09-10-2012, 08:58 PM
Here are some pics of the riders coming into the checkpoint in Anamosa.

http://s422.photobucket.com/albums/pp302/biglew55/2012%20Cannonball%20Run/

hdliz
09-10-2012, 09:15 PM
Excellent BigLew55.... you got some great shots... thank you!

Charlie1012000
09-10-2012, 11:47 PM
Not nice to spread bearing balls for the Harley trail, is it Greasy? You'll need them to steer!

tomcat1
09-10-2012, 11:49 PM
Josh is running strong and has completed full points. Having the time of my life. I just got back to the hotel at 11:30pm. I was helping rebuild his steering head bearings and the other nightly maintenance.. About a mile from the museum he felt something not right with the steering.
He was missing 7 out of 21 ball bearings in the upper bearing cup. So we rebuilt the upper and lower. What a great guy! I will be riding with him all day tomorrow!

GreasySideUp
09-10-2012, 11:58 PM
I met Curly at the Harley museum last night. They had an awesome banquet for us and a hero's welcome.

Today started pretty rough for Craig and I. We had a wrong turn right out of the gate - about 15 of us made it but I blame Steve Rinker. 3 miles out and the bike started to miss and then I lost a cylinder completely. I had been riding with Steve and Ian but they pressed on and I puled off to the side of the road. We got a bad batch of gas yesterday that led me to try and tune it out with the carb. I'm still new to these old Scheblers and none of us realized that the gas was bad. This led the carb to be overly rich, a plug change and I was on the way. I hooked back up with Ian about 15 miles down the road and at the 40 mile point the bike started to miss again. Right when I started after the plug change the chase vehicle caught up to us - not a good feeling. "We're good" but I knew if it happened again I was toast for the day.

I've been chasing the tuning on the carb all trip. Most of it is because I have never done it but I debated pulling it apart tonight. The old tank sealer had completely come apart and there was no filter on the bike so that stuff was running through the carb. There is a chance some of the ports are clogged and my mixture is never going to be quite correct. I got some more advice from Shaun at the next fuel stop and she ran like a top for the rest of the day. I pulled the plugs two more times and they looked great, a nice chocolate color in the middle.

Harley hosted a great lunch and about 3 miles from the finish my neck let loose. I could only do about 5mph to the finish line before the death wobbles set in so I limped her into the museum. The had an awesome Ribeye sandwich for us but I only had a few minutes to look through the museum so I could work on the bike. Tomcat and Mark showed up tonight so I put them to work. I sent Mark to the hardware store to get some 1/4" bearings and Tomcat and I started tearing it apart under Steves watchful eye. It turned out I was missing 7 out of 21 bearings in the top race. I am extremely lucky, these have a habit of locking up if there is not enough bearings. Mark saved the day by scouring several stores and bought all the bearings plus some spares. He then helped checking all the bolts on Craig - a huge help.

Marcin's bike is a mystery right now. We tore it down until 1:30 last night under a streetlight and found that he has Japaneese pistons on a stroked bottom end. This engine was built to fly but we are having an impossible time finding the replacement parts. Buck Rinker has called all his friends but we still haven't found a score. We have to do something about this, it is too far to come. Hopefully sturgis will turn up some parts.

It was great having some help tonight, it turned an all night job into just a few hours.

http://i49.tinypic.com/sqs5k2.jpghttp://i48.tinypic.com/2h81pad.jpg


http://i50.tinypic.com/a6q76.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/qxqupy.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2en5848.jpg

Be sure when you hook up the oil line for the first time that you open the bleed screw and then tap the line until all the bubbles come out. Use a clear cup so you can see this. It takes about 10-15 seconds for the first bubbles and about a minute for the last ones. There will be bubbles although you will probably only see oil first and think it is good.

http://i50.tinypic.com/1ztap1.jpg

Charlie1012000
09-11-2012, 12:28 AM
With a dodgy tank liner and so much welding as you have done, the solder seam between gas and oil tank probably is weakend. I'd keep a sharp eye in the oil tank for gas smell and make provisions for an external oil tank to be connected in stead. Other seams can be weakened also, so a small gas leak can develope to a big one in a hurry..

OK, i was worried the tank sealer you put in had disintegrated, but you probably ment the sealer that was in the tank before. I still would check the oil tank now and then for gas dilution.
Really pleased to hear all's right. Still a long way to go!

Charlie1012000
09-11-2012, 12:56 AM
The .net jockeys need piston dimension and compression height to search successfully for a substitute.

vlscout
09-11-2012, 02:20 AM
Rocky has Stroker pistons for Chief flywheels and looking at the Compression height on the pics they Look very similar ,But as Charlie says the dimensions are needed .
http://www.ironwigwam.com Listed under Indian and regular on Ebay.
Regards phil

Charlie1012000
09-11-2012, 02:35 AM
I think Rocky is stationed in Pennsylvania? abit far away. HD 3.81" or Chief 4.43"stroke? I guess Marcel having overbore as well. Vintage Honda XL 250 piston. XR is 76mm. Nortons running 73mm and larger pistons. Old Mini's running 73mm +. Suzuki GS 1000. All with similar comp. height as that on the pic. not the same head but would chuff along in a pinch if the piston pins fit. Ross and JS is making Norton and stroker Scout pistons. Omega for the Mini's pistons. Some Honda Civic and Peugeot pistons would suit a stroker also. Find a shop and turn a slug! I read a story about a Henderson owner that took a burnt piston out and crafted a hickory pin in the con rod small end....